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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Speed to Power RFI (DOE), Secretary of Interior Doug Burgum Expressing Current Administration Initiatives, Historic US-UK Nuclear Collaboration
Welcome back to the show, friends. Dave, I'm happy to see you today. How are you feeling?
SPEAKER_00:I'm feeling great. Great to see you again. It's been uh been an exciting week. Yes, it has.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it has. Always happy to get back in the studio. Man, we had a fun interview recently. Bobby Gallagher over at Deployable Energy and his Unity battery still got me just he's got my mind reeling over what we're gonna be able to do with that over at Valley Forge.
SPEAKER_00:So um absolutely headline. Well, and yeah, yeah, and if you haven't, you know, I you know, whenever you're listening to this, our listeners, go listen to that episode. Make sure you don't miss that episode with Bobby Gallagher because it's uh you know, Wayne and I, I think Wayne and I talked, you know, we talked a lot afterward about the implications and what he and his team are building, and it's substantial. And and they are really on a pathway that is reminiscent of some of the some of the great companies. And you kind of see a similar track of where they've just they've just deconstructed the problem and said, let's figure this out, let's let's start like we don't know anything and let's build back and see if we can figure out a new way to do this. And you know what? They have.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's like it's it feels like you know this is 80s, 90s, this is like pre-internet about to pop, or like, you know, Google IPO or like Meta IPO, like getting ready to blow up, or you know, SpaceX. I mean, this is like this is the level, guys. It's like we've got some behind-the-scenes opportunities working with guys like Bobby Gallagher, and as he's deploying this thing and as things work through the administration, all the stars have lined up. We've got Nerk making the revisions, we've got the administration making the enhancements to make it, you know, to really usher in this nuclear renaissance. And there's a lot of very smart people in this space. Yes, the smartest. I'm gonna go on the limb and say all of the smartest, brightest people in industry in the private sector in the U.S. are really determined to solve this nuclear situation. And Bobby is like in front of that pack.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, he's he's tip of the spear. And you know, not not to you know, we'll go on a not to give any more away, but um, you know, for those in the audience um who have heard and remember the deep water horizon spill in the Gulf uh about what 15 years ago now, um uh, you know, when they when they BP lost the rig and uh we had the you know the millions of gallons spewing into into the Gulf there. And uh that was you know, that was uh it was an insurmountable problem when they brought you know everybody to bear to try and solve it. Well Bobby Bobby was the guy who brought the team together who said and figured out how to actually solve this. And he was you know young guy at the time, you know, in consideration, uh late 20s and in the late 20s, and he's the he and his team are the reason that that got solved. Yeah, so that's that that's what I will say is this is you know, this is the kind of person that uh that he is, and and and so when when Wayne says when you say Wayne, he's tip of the spear, when he's really at the forefront of this, he truly is at the forefront of some you know some great you know, just great engineering and understanding and and understanding what we need to do to move forward in the world. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, guys, you know, it's a headlines day. Today's a headlines day, and we got a really interesting um request last week. And the uh, you know, the team here at Invictus Sovereign dove right into it. The minute we got it, we dove right in. Um, and we got this this new RFI. It it dropped. Uh this is I guess from Department of Energy RFI request for information. Right? And they're calling this the Speed to Power RFI. Dave, do you want to you want to give some give our listeners some of the details on this?
SPEAKER_00:It's a very exciting request. It is a very, very exciting request. Um so you know, in in a in a nutshell, um it's the speed to power initiative is is is a an aim to accelerate multi-gigawatt generation and transmission for AI data centers, right? So something obviously we talk about a lot. Um this is this is their reach out to say, hey, let us know what you're doing, what what projects are going on in the US right now that maybe some we know about, some we don't know about. What do we need to know? Uh because we want to get behind this entire movement, and we need to understand if there are things that aren't happening that need to happen. So uh, you know, roughly the the new initiative is going to compress timelines for big grid projects. You know, they opened up the RFI request for information. Um, you know, and so you know, for us here, you know, for our for our project, it's just you know, it's directly supporting what we're trying to accomplish with our timelines for bringing power online, uh, getting transmission built, and doing it on a on a on a gigawatts scale, and and also coming into alignment with all the permitting. And so you really have a top-down saying, let's let's re-look at this, let's go and ask all of these developers, energy builders, uh, energy companies, nuclear company, everybody in the space, tell us what you what you need. And then they're going to, you know, the intent is to sort through it and say, okay, here's how we can best support you. So in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_01:It's incredible. You know, I had a chance to go back to DC this last week. Yeah. I was gonna say, you were there when this when this all came down. I was in DC when this RFI came out. Yes, that's right. And had an opportunity to meet with some very, very high-level folks in the Department of Commerce and Department of Interior. And to see that dropping while we were there was so exciting because we already know the stars are aligning. We already see the Trump administration and the secretaries he's put into these high-level positions that are controlling the levers on this and recognizing everybody knows transmission permitting historically has been abysmal. A decade or 15 years. This is nonsensical. Like, you know, blowing through the walls and the regulation and getting, you know, recognizing we're in this power race with China is a critical, uh, it's a it's a critical thing to solve with national security implications tied to power, tied to national defense, tied to they're they're all interrelated. And so, you know, it's so such a breath of fresh air to see pragmatism and and pragmatism coming from top down, saying, guys, the archaic ways we've done this are not going to solve the the problems we're facing today. We need new solutions, new protocol, new processes. It's got to be clean slate, and we got to kind of we've got to start, and we've got to build a new infrastructure, physically and legislatively, to meet the demand. And so I just so grateful to see everyone top-down, you know, speaking the same language, acknowledging the same threat and the same, you know, potential solutions, and then really engaging on it and uh and seeing action coming from the top down. It's exciting. It's exciting to be a part of it. Well, I mean, Sentinel One, you know, we're uh we're hoping to get the Sentinel Transmission project rolling, and that's got to happen yesterday. You know, if Utah is gonna stand up its first seven, the first 765 KV lines in the West and pioneer that, we can't be dilly-dallying for 10 more years to make this happen. AI is already, you know, like like all the chips will fall over the next couple of years as to where data centers are located, you know, what's going to get done. It's it's all gonna be determined, you know, in less than 10 years. And so that's a driving urgency.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, it um it underscores this this need for um well, this need to uh re-look at how we we use the word convention. Like with there, and and actually we talked about this with Bobby about you know, there's conventional approaches to everything. And convention obviously came out of getting us where we needed to get to. But in this space right now, um it it it seems to be the people who are the disruptors who are saying, okay, this is how we've done it. There's a reason this takes so long. And a lot of those reasons um have come out of really just you know, just having lots of unnecessary, perhaps, oversight and infrastructure in place that really doesn't need to be there, but has just developed over time because that's that's what that's what things, that's how things tend to tend to work. And in in government and even in big business, we see this in big business. You know, big businesses, you know, big corporations don't pivot quickly. They they can't. They have this massive infrastructure, and it's you know, I've always equated it to like you know trying to stop a massive ship. You don't just stop a massive ship. Um, you you make a course correction, but you can't just stop and move like you can in say a small sailboat, right? Or a speed boat. And you know, when you when like us, when you come out of the entrepreneurial space, you realize that those pivots and those quick pivots become really important. And and it's really hard. So it's hard with big organizations and big infrastructure to change this, but um, there are lots of solutions, and and actually one of the benefits of AI actually is that we can take what has been traditionally really complex problems and lots of information that has to go through lots of people and distill it down and get to information and get to answers a lot quicker. And so it it we don't, we don't actually have to wait. And so there's a lot of reasons like this is this is why this needs to happen. And so from the top down, this is happening, saying we're in a different space for all the reasons we need to change, and also we can change and not just that we want to just just change the change, we can embrace this uh much more nimble mindset of like we've got to solve these things quicker. And so that's what you see in this in this RFI request. Obviously, it's backed up. They want to they want to be able to deploy uh and use funding programs to support national emergency um uh you know nationally recognized emergencies, and and one of them has been power, saying we have to solve power growth, grid stability, security, uh uh we have to prevent against cyber attacks, supply chain, electrical grid disruptions, you know, both caused from weather, but also from bad actors. So there's lots of things that need to happen, and they're just not happening quick enough. And you see a concerted effort all the top down saying, we got to get this fixed. Okay, America, entrepreneurs, tell us what you've got.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely what it is, Dave. And I and this is an awesome segue, and we don't have to fully leave the speed to power RFI, but this one headline that I came upon, and I watched an interview this morning uh from Energy Connects interviewing uh U.S. Secretary of the Interior, Doug Burga. This was this is driving home like four or five really key points that underscore the underscore why the C B to power RFI just just uh got unveiled, right? And as he said down in the interview, uh the I just want to blow through these bullet points he made because they're all super relevant. He highlighted the strategic importance of the evolution from energy transition to today's energy addition. We're no longer looking at transitioning, guys, from you know the fossil fuels over to the renewables. That's that's that's the old way of thinking, that's what happened for the last 20 years. We're talking about we are in the era of energy addition, and that's at whatever it costs. It's all modalities need to be added to. Um He underscored how a nation's prosperity and future are directly linked to its capacity for abundant, affordable, and reliable energy. He also outlined why energy security and affordability remain central to peace and prosperity, emphasizing the U.S. role in supporting allies through abundant and diversified supply, and spoke on the critical link between electricity, artificial intelligence, and global competitiveness. And then he also kind of finally, and it was a short interview, it was only like a six-minute interview. He also highlighted the need for nations to balance decarbonization goals with reliability, national security, and economic growth, warning that the race to secure electricity will define the next era of global leadership, guys. And this is why beating on California. This is like, listen to Secretary Bergham. This is exactly what we've been saying, but he's saying it to nations like you've got to take this whole decarbonization at all cost mentality, set it aside for a second, and really balance this and maybe prioritize the reliability, the national security and economic growth initiatives first. And once you've met those initiatives, then you can focus about more of that decarbonization because there's a place for all of it. And I think I think really listening to Secretary Bergham, he's got he's got the pragmatic mindset about it. He's saying, look, all of the, you know, the ships will rise in this tide, but it goes in this order. And if we lose one of these top three things, we're really in trouble. And then decarbonization doesn't mean shit. You know, if we fail in in national security, for example, or we fail to win the AI race, who cares about decarbonization? Because we got a whole lot bigger problems at that point. So that was a refreshing interview to hear it from the horse's mouth, top-down, Secretary Bergum.
SPEAKER_00:Uh in fact, that I that's fascinating. Uh and I actually hadn't seen it, I saw part of it. I saw uh, but I want to go back and and listen to it. Um uh going into that and dovetailing on that. This is interesting because it's uh depending upon what you think of the IEA, which is the International Energy Association, they they they had a very interesting report released this week. And um so it's a it's a major report bringing groundbreaking data and analysis to one of the to AI and and and talking about its potential impacts, meaning uh trying to really dig into what what what are we really looking at on the global scale? Uh, what does it really mean? What are the numbers really saying? And then also trying to take into account of okay, well, no one's really not no one, but a lot of groups, when you talk about these stories, they're not digging into the okay, well, where are we going to see the benefits of AI? Because sometimes those don't get accounted for. Like once we get, for example, just on a just on a power plant, if you can put if you have an AI, so just at your home, you have a you know, old school, like the R old, you know, the thermostats. When everybody got those NES thermostats, that was you know, we call machine learning, you know, AI, early AI algorithmic, it learned people's routines. Well, the promise was, and it, and it delivered on the promise for a lot of people. It's like it would it would reduce your power bill because it it brought efficiencies where they didn't exist before. Well, when you're talking about bringing on power plants and and and managing grids and all that, well, AI can work there too. And so, you know, as we build this up, and you know, if you're on the side where you're like, oh, I'm worried about AI, okay. But you also have to be open, be open-minded to that it's also going to be bringing lots of benefits, sometimes unseen. And this is the this report tries to tackle a lot more of that than I've seen in the past. And so um uh, you know, they're they're talking some of the interesting numbers that they came out of this report where they've talked about it projects the electricity demand from data centers worldwide is set to more than double by 2030, uh, to 945 terawatt hours, slightly more than the entire electricity consumption of Japan today. Wow. AI, uh they say AI go on to say AI will be the most significant driver of this increase with electricity demand from AI optimized data centers projected to more than quadruple by 2030. I think when we started this, Wayne, I think we were talking about doubling. I think it was I think so. And that was usually a lot further out. So even in the time we've been on doing this podcast, it's the numbers you know keep going up in factors. Um, they specifically talked about the United States. Power consumption by data centers is on course to account for almost half of the growth in electricity demand between now and 2030. Driven by AI use, the U.S. economy is set to consume more electricity in 2030 for processing data than for manufacturing all energy-intensive goods combined, including aluminum, steel, cement, and chemicals. In advanced economies more broadly, data centers are projected to drive more than 20% of the growth in electricity demand between now and 2030, putting the power sector in those economies back on a growth footing after years of stagnating or declining demand in many of them. Obviously, this is this is old hat. If you've been listening to us for a while, we've been talking about this for the entire time uh we've been doing the podcast. This is we talk about, but these are big groups coming in, doing their big studies, saying, okay, what does it really look like? And underscoring everything we've been saying, which is we have to solve this and we have to solve this now. And the solves aren't necessarily easy. And so, Gwen, going back to what you said and what I said, getting top-down support uh politically is absolutely essential and critical in making sure the US can stay on this track and compete. And again, I will say if you are one of those out there who think, oh, well, we don't need to compete, we don't need AI. You are that it it is it that cat is out of the box. AI is here, it's not going away. It's going to affect negatively and positively everything in our lives, like everything we do, right? Yeah, that's what progress typically is. There is good, there is bad, but it's progress forward. Um, we hope on all these things that the good outweighs the bad, and in many cases, in most cases, it does. Um, I would think that there are those people back in the 90s or even probably early 80s, like, oh, this computer stuff. Eh. Well, I would say that it has advanced us and created lots of great things. Has it given us some problems? Yeah, it has. Yeah. Are we working through those? Yes. Are we taking the wins as we can take them? Yes. But we're progressing. AI isn't going to be any different than that. AI is going to be, and it might actually, I mean, it might end up being the biggest disruptor in all of human history, you know, after you know, in a hundred years looking back and kind of what we can do and can't do, but it's it's not going away. So if we want control on it, we want to say in it, and we want to be able to drive that market, which we do in the US, then we need to solve power. Period. End of story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So again, in case you're one of those things, oh no, this is fine. I don't want to see. No, we have to. And if you don't think we have to compete, well, you know, the the the what you enjoy on your daily basis, whether it's you know being able to plug in your phone, do it, whatever, communicating on a phone, being able to do what you do, being able to for your job, being able to ask a question, all of those things are all based upon this. All the things that we're loving to do, all uh, that's that all comes here. So we every one of us, I can think, unless you're living off a grid and you do are not connected to to the modern grid in any shape or form, use AI whether we know it or not. Already. Already. And so we need to solve it. So this is this is all good news. These are these are all good headlines, meaning, like, yep, we're recognizing what the issue is, we're recognizing that we need to grow. And the US very much top down, the administration is recognizing how to move um the obstacles out of the way to make sure this can move forward and and move forward smartly, right? Uh, not just helping through we're just gonna go crazy and yeah, sure, go ahead and build a nuclear plant in the middle of the sea. That's not what they're doing. They're saying, no, we we want to, we understand there's there still has to be, there have to be safety protocols, all kinds of things in place. But we gotta, there's so much in the way that doesn't need to be in the way. Let's get that out of the way.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and listen, if I could read between the lines on these headlines, if I could read between the lines and and thinking on some of these conversations we're having with folks at the very top on a federal level, and the implications that that has, that alignment is going to have on these environmental groups who have traditionally been successful delaying and killing transmission projects, city council idiots and you know, back and back east in certain states saying, not in my backyard, this transmission, blah, blah, blah. That's not gonna happen. That's no longer gonna fly. That's what I'm reading between the lines. And the feds are saying, look, if you're getting state level pushback on a major transmission project, you need to let us handle it. It will be done. It will be ex We're not gonna be having these, these, these superfluous delays over NIMBYism or spotted out or some nonsense, right? Because there's bigger things at play here. And I think that's also very good news because we've been crippled. Okay, and and the folks at the very top are using that term. We've crippled ourselves with some overly ambitious, uh overly ambitious commitments in a direction that hasn't left us in a position right now where we need to be. We're we're kind of behind. China's kicking our ass in how much they produce, and we know it. And it didn't need to necessarily be this way, but you know, we can still we can still correct this, but time is of the essence.
SPEAKER_00:I do think in this issue, and I don't know, I'm gonna I'm kind of curious to see how this plays out. I think there's gonna be a states' rights issue that is going to bubble up. And I and I don't think it's gonna be exclusive to say blue or red. I think you're gonna see traditionally red's. That's absolutely uh because traditionally, I mean you you know that that's and that that tends to be one of the battles that gets waged here. But I will say this, and I said this, we talked about this I don't know, a few episodes ago. Um, the if you're looking at wind, the states that were most successful in bringing on wind, Iowa and Texas. Yeah, yeah, okay. So last I checked, uh pretty, pretty, pretty red-leaning states, and they did a better job bringing renewables online than did Washington state or Oregon. And this came down to transmission because the states were willing on a state level to say, look, we'll we'll we will make this happen. We will get out of the way, we'll we'll make these transmission things happen to bring on renewables because in certain areas we know renewables help power oil fuels and things where you where it's just impractical to get power out there. We get that. So we're gonna get out of the way. Same thing in Iowa. We're gonna get out of the way, we're gonna make sure the transmission can happen so they they can bring this kind of power online. That's the solution. The solution is getting you know a state saying, yes, we're gonna we're gonna help you do these things, maybe you know, necessarily not picking the winners' loaders saying, hey, okay, you you you have this, there's a need, there's a demand, okay. Go. How can we best support you? Um, I think, I think we will see states right now who will say, Yep, we'll work with the federal government, you know, and and making sure we can work hand in hand with them to make sure that we can do these transmission projects, we can get them to go in because it involves typically sometimes multiple states. And you will see states that are going to push back and say, Yep, no, we want to do it. And this goes back to something you and I talked about last week in California when they passed the bill. Yeah. They can talk about they can talk about 2030 and renewables all they want. Totally. Totally. They have to solve transmission. And last I checked, putting transmission in California is not an easy thing to do. Nope. And so California, again, if if they're going to try and actually solve this, they have to solve transmission. And that has to be something the state leads the charge on. And right now, it doesn't appear that they're willing to do that. So they're trying to lean on interconnectivity where they already have it, and saying, Oh, well, let's let's let's let the other states help us solve our own problem. Right. And instead of saying, well, we need to do transmission, and yeah, we're gonna probably piss some people off. I get it. If you live near the, I get, I understand, we all understand that. But at the same time, that's when you need your state and your politicians to say, well, there is a bigger picture here we have to solve. And so you see states doing that and doing a lot better. And I think you'll see states, you know, you'll see the Utah. I think you'll see Utah do do that. They'll they'll say, Yes, we need to help support the federal government. We'll work with the federal government and make sure that we can get out of the way so that we can get some of this transmission done so that we can benefit Utah. Because they that's where they see it. Like this is they do it right, this benefits Utah. Any of these states do it, it benefits the local state first. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and you're talking about a lot of federal funding potentially. So, you know, you you there's there's an incentive for cooperation. Right. And it's not just growth, it's not just an increased tax base, it's actual funding support from the top down. And so it behooves states to be cooperative and get out of the way and or lay the pave the you know, pave the way for these things to be happening and happen smoothly. So that's good news. That's all very good news. It's all good news, right? And again, you know, expressing gratitude to live in Utah. I felt like Utah is definitely the best state in the Union. We've got it on lock from a legislative perspective. Our legislators get it, and we're proud of them and keep up the good work.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I in any ways, I think they're leading. I mean, I think what we are. You know, what we've done on a on a on a legislative level has been looked at and seen and said, you know, what's happening in Utah, they're doing it, they're doing it the right way. And I mean, the you know, the local thing is the Utah way. We there's there's a joke, you know, there's a joke and memes going around that's the Utah way. But in all seriousness, the Utah way about doing lots of these things, you know, is usually steeped in a lot of pragmatism and and reasonable approaches. And and so it gets looked at a lot, even on a federal level, where the feds go, okay, what are they doing in Utah that's working out so well? Well, maybe we should mirror that for the country, or maybe we should take some of what they've done there and see if we can, you know, maybe help help usher this in in other places because it's working there and you know we think it can work elsewhere. So that's right. So kudos again to Utah for doing I'm telling you, having a crystal ball or something because you know how quickly this has developed, and just to have this infrastructure that we've talked about in place already shows shows uh as yeah, we've said, shows uh shows a prescience that's that that's really impressive.
SPEAKER_01:Prescience is the appropriate term. And I'm feeling your term. Thank you. And I I call it hand of God because we acknowledge the hand of God in this. We're we're God, you know, God respecting patriots, and you know, it is one nation under God, but some states seem to be more clear about this, right? Giving credit where credit's due. And I think our Utah, our Utah policymakers certainly are not the guys standing up there saying, look what we're doing. There's they're they're they're acknowledging God's hand in things. Um, and they're allowing, they're in a they're in a mentality of allowing uh prosperity and abundance to flow into the communities. That's really what this is about. Energy drives prosperity and abundance, and our legislators really understand that, I think, better than most.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed. Uh anything else? What else you got, Wayne? What else did you say? I I got others if you want me to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, look, look, I had one other, and it was just kind of uh it was kind of underscoring uh the divergence on the green initiative. This headline here in uh Heart Energy uh put out an article. The headline is U.S. intends to cancel$13 billion in funds for green energy. And you, you know, Dave and I have been covering this ad nauseum for a year or more. Um we talked about it with Secretary Bergham's comments, the you know, the the divergence away from the energy transition into energy addition. Um, but this this headline here in this article just uh basically is talking about how the U.S. Department of Energy is canceling more than$13 billion in funds that the Biden administration had pledged to subsidize wind, solar, batteries, and EVs as of this week. So this is a a a clear, this is just clear you know, Trump administration rolling back policy, killing incentives. In exchange for national security, energy density, energy reliability, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's where I'm, you know, on this specifically where I might disagree with parts of that, because I think I think you could argue that, you know, I think batteries, I think a lot of these things, and I mean, we've supported the oil, we've supported oil and gas industry as we should have. I mean, we've we've stood these things up. Again, as we approach this as an all above the approach, it's like if things are working, things are working. If there are battery projects that are actually helping, but we we and we understand the value of batteries, especially when you're talking about baseload power, it's probably uh it's probably something that needs to be looked at. Um, in certain parts of the country, if it makes sense to do, you know, went sure. Do I think that again, you know, we've talked about this, you know. Do I think that we we went heavy into one industry versus not looking at the obvious, which was nuclear 40 years ago? Yeah. Yeah. I think we may we we made a huge miscalculation, and I think that was driven by fear and lots of things. And I think we're correcting that. Uh we're correcting course in that, and that's good to see. Um, I hope, I mean, and you know, and we've seen this, we talk about this because we know there are projects that are are counting on ITCs, and we know there are yeah, there's lots of stuff in this space. So I hope it all gets worked out. And I did see something that you know, they are, I think they were sparing batteries. I think it's uh maybe the batteries are gonna win a return. That wouldn't surprise me because I wouldn't be prudent. Yeah. So well, we'll see. I mean, and again, you know, you've got we one thing we haven't talked about for a while is waste energy. You know, that's a that's another thing that's out there that you know we see in our space a lot that gets talked about. Another one that's interesting and solves a couple of problems if you could do it right. Um, creates energy, deals with trash problems. I mean, there's there's some interesting stuff out there. So again, we'll see. We'll see what that what it ends up being. But it's clear that it's a let's let's focus on what we know what we have baseload-wise, and we know we have, we know we have gas, we know we have this, we know we have, we know we have nuclear, we know that that needs we need to push that forward, and it's been there for a long time. So let's focus on those things right now. Yep, and that that's what that's that's really the message that I'm seeing out of it. Yeah, yep, I'd agree with that. Yeah. Um, so uh, I was telling you about all what Altman said. This would be Sam Altman, open AI CEO, which kind of caught me off guard. I was like, wow, that's that's a lot. Um, yeah, nah, he he yeah, um, he says he said in a blog post that they are they're trying to build um a massive plant to build um AI infrastructure, so they're producing a gigawatt of infrastructure every week. So basically recognizing the need, just the sheer amount of uh which is mind-boggling how much what that means. So that's that's 365 gigawatts of AI infrastructure every week just in per in producing that just to support growth.
SPEAKER_01:365 gigawatts every week?
SPEAKER_00:Well, no, that in a year, in a year. In a year, they produce 365 of infrastructure. That should tell you where they think this is going.
SPEAKER_01:Was it was it a gigawatt per week?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah. So I'm sorry, my bad. Yeah, not every day. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the correction. Yeah, 52. So either way, yeah, 52 gigawatts of 52 gigawatts a year of infrastructure out of a plant. Okay. And that's one company saying, we're doing this because we're trying to buy these things and build this, and there aren't enough companies building this fast enough.
SPEAKER_01:And when, and when in this article is specific when well, from the context of infrastructure, you're talking about chips? Are you talking about chips and appurtenances, or what what is it?
SPEAKER_00:He he did not go into details in his in his in his blog post. But there you go. That's the that's the that's the that's extraordinary. Yeah, it's I guess where where he sees things going, and I would say that he is at, he truly is, you know, he he knows what's going on because he's he's at the head of it. Yeah. Um, he's seeing that they're having to solve their own growth issues. Uh which we totally understand. We share that sentiment. We do. We we that's that's why we're doing what we're doing today, is because we were trying to try we we knew that it couldn't be solved. We couldn't solve power. Um because we needed power and we couldn't solve it. And so we we went to tackling it ourselves because it it just couldn't be solved, and I think that's exactly where they are. It's like they they cannot enough built fit fast enough.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you yeah, industry traditional industry or traditional utility isn't gonna get this done for us. We better do it ourselves. Well, I certainly honor that mentality.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, do so do I. Uh well, you know, another thing uh in nuclear uh this week, uh obviously President Trump was in the UK, and so uh this well, whenever this airs, he was recently. How about that? He was recently there. So what's interesting, this is the most significant week in translant transatlantic nuclear cooperation since the 50s.
SPEAKER_01:Oh interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so so 75 years, this is the biggest kind of announcement and movement we've had in cooperation with the UK regarding nuclear. Wow. So excited to hear this. So uh, you know, he was there so uh so between September 14th, 2024, somewhere in there. So as a coordinated surge of commercial agreements totaling over a hundred billion spanned advanced reactor deployments, advanced nuclear fuel supply chains, nuclear waste management, maritime nuclear applications, engineering services, and regulatory harmonization. Formalized under the Atlantic Partnership for Advanced Nuclear Energy, signed September 15th. The announcements seek to align U.S. energy dominance with priorities with UK's nuclear ambitions as both countries seek to end reliance on Russian nuclear material and cut reactor licensing timelines from three to four years to roughly two. Uh the orchestrated way, and I'm reading this by the way. This is out of uh power, uh it's it's power mag uh written by a sonal patel. So not my not my words. I want to give credit where credit's due. Uh the orchestrated wave around U.S. President Donald Trump's September 16th, 18th state visit to the UK demonstrates how rapidly the nuclear industry can pivot when regulatory barriers fall and government policies align with private capital. While Trump claimed$350 billion in bilateral deals across all sectors during the visit, the nuclear tranche alone opens the path for both countries to capture surging demand from AI-driven data centers and industrial decarbonization while cementing Western controlled supply chains for the next generation reactors. So kind of tying into everything we've been talking about, right?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, yeah, and you know, and to underscore that, you know, we we I learned about it last week, but I think this is uh an MOU that got signed like two weeks ago. Uh is you know, JBIC, Japanese Bank of International Cooperation that includes SoftBank and other uh you know, banking subsidiaries in JBIC pledged$500 billion to the Trump administration for similar initiatives, energy infrastructure, AI advancement, etc. So, you know, the allies, the U.S. allies are really doubling down in the wake of Trump's executive orders and initiatives, and now open collaboration, that's super exciting.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and to underscore what you just said, I will um I'll keep reading here because it has a quote from the UK Energy Secretary. Okay. So UK Energy Secretary Ed Miliban called it the coordinated wave, the start of a golden, quote, golden age of nuclear, saying, quote, we're kickstarting a golden age of nuclear in this country, joining forces with the U.S. to turbochart new nuclear developments and secure the technologies of the future, end quote. Uh U.S. Energy Secretary Chris Wright matched the tone, noting that today's commercial deals set up a framework to unleash commercial access in both U.S. and UK, enhancing global energy security, strengthening U.S. energy dominance, and securing nuclear supply chains across the Atlantic. Outstanding. Huge, huge for for us and the UK to talk a little bit about what you said regarding uh JBIC. You know, I'm very excited about that, and I'm excited because Utah has had a long existing. If you don't know, Utah has had a long existing relation, trade relationship with Japan, the state of Utah. Um, in fact, uh one of our partners, Randy and I, we got to be part of a call, oh, it seems like around, I don't know, six or seven months ago, where it was kind of the who's who in the state of Utah as far as like, you know, um coordinating some you know energy and things like that, and then talking with them about what they want to do. And you know, there's there's so much cooperation and there and there's so much history between Japan and the state of Utah. I mean, I can see where that will also benefit Utah in a very big way.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and on the same note, you know, I was having a conversation with CEO of 47G, Aaron Starks, this week, and uh I mentioned something about J BIC, and you know, he actually served at a church mission in Kyoto, uh, Japan, and still speaks fluent Japanese, and he's very plugged into JBIC. And that makes a lot of sense in aerospace and defense, right? And so there's a lot of the the give and take with with US allies like Japan, where you're seeing them make huge, you know, um 10, 11, 11, 12 figure commitments, um, and and then having some trade deals go back and forth, like, okay, Hitachi Heavy is going to be providing so many turbines, or you know, XYZ, you know, Japan manufacturers are gonna be providing X. And so, you know, there there is a um a synergy there that was really it's really fun to start learning about these international trade deals. It's not just about, you know, putting capital here and making a return. It's really about cultivating meaningful relationships of trade. And it's good to see the U.S. collaborating with UK there because I think that's something we should have been doing all along.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed. Agreed. Um and closer to home, although part of this conversation, uh you know, uh Governor Cox uh back in the news a little bit. Um uh this is all part of uh the energy um energy week conference at the at the University of Utah. Um so what it but the I'll read a little bit of the article at the Tribune. Uh so you know it says a complete mind shift change toward nuclear energy is out of way. Governor uh Spencer Cox told a conference Tuesday, and the momentum will help advance his plans to position Utah as a national leader in in energy development. Uh quote uh from Spencer Cox. I truly believe that we're on the cusp of the of this of some great leaps forward if we can get Congress to get their crap together. Cox joked to a packed room at the annual Utah Energy Week conference. The conference, hosted by the University of Utah, brings together researchers, national laboratories, nonprofits, policymaker students to engage in conversation about energy. Cox said that the Utah must double its energy capacity in the next five few years to meet rapidly growing demand driven in part by artificial intelligence and the energy-intensive data centers that support it, as well as the ongoing military arms race with China. Uh, to meet that end, he launched Operation Gigawatt, which we talk about a lot on this. And then part of Cox's energy plan is to build a nuclear plant in Utah. Very excited. You know, again, this administration, uh the entire legislative body has been hugely supportive of that, and and you know, and they're pushing it forward. So and then he uh goes on, he go, he went on to tell attendees the polling for nuclear energy has been uh overwhelmingly positive. Um, and um so there you go. And that's what he had to say about uh what uh what's going on. And and so you know, he's out there on the stump uh trying to trying to push it forward.
SPEAKER_01:So and I and I don't envy Governor Cox or or many of our governors, you know, they're they're having to juggle so many balls, and there's so many different headlines, and there's so many different issues that they've got to be really handling proficiently, and you you you're never gonna get them all right, you know, and so I don't envy the position that he's in to be juggling all of the balls, but on energy and infrastructure and AI, he's getting it right, and we're appreciative. Um, I want to underscore a point on all of that that we've made, I think, for the listeners more than once, and I just gonna keep saying it because it needs to be said. And I and I I can imagine if I put myself in Governor Cox's shoes or you know, any of our senators' shoes, it's gotta be very frustrating as a policymaker or a a a government leader from their position to be uh you know, fully understanding the problem, doing everything they can to make solutions, uh enacting legislation, enacting executive orders, and at the end of the day recognizing that all of those enhanced all of that legislation is just talk and paper. And it has very little meaning or very little value until private sector steps in with billions of dollars like gas on, you know, adding gas to the engine. It's like they're building an engine, but until you throw gas in it, it it can't move, it can't do anything. And it's got to be really frustrating to see the need and to see that urgency and recognize the urgency better than maybe most people recognize. Speaking of Governor Cox, I think he really does recognize and he's doing everything he can to get it done. And I think that's where you, you know, reading between the lines, that's maybe why he's taking a jab at Congress. And, you know, he's recognizing, like, look, I'm doing everything I can, guys. Can you please take some of the gloves off so some of the private guys can do what they need to do? Because you're it's still in the way. Despite everything we're doing here locally, we still need more action so that private can come in and spend billions of dollars to actually leverage the legislation and solve the issues. So it it there's never been a more glaring need for public-private collaboration and partnership. Like the spirit of partnership has never been more necessary.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed. No, it it hasn't. And um, you know, and and the market works really well when you when you align those things, when you can get private working and getting, you know, getting the you know, the the politician or the the politics side of this to just, you know, they it often is when they do their best work when they can set some guardrails in place and just get out of the way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and you know, and the problem has been is that there's you know, there weren't only guard guardrails, there were giant barriers and oh yeah, pits and steel walls, you know, spans across, you know, giant crevasses and all put in the way. So and and boats with dragons in them, yeah. Yes, right, exactly. So I mean it hasn't been easy, and you know, and and so you get into this, you're like, okay, why can't we get this done any faster? And I I can you're right, Wayne. I mean, I can't imagine how frustrating when you know if you could just make things happen, but you know you gotta bring everybody to the table, but yeah, just make but get everybody on that and say, look, if we just go here and go this direction, we we will be better off for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um that's the patience. Oh, I just I I I can't even imagine what they battle every day. And we're appreciative that they stand in the fight and they just continue fighting on and doing everything they can. And and I think it takes a lot of faith actually to get up every day and keep fighting the fight and keep believing that it it'll move the needle. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Uh uh, that's that's for sure. Uh one thing I also saw, you know, on the heels of this uh power initiative. I this was interesting, and you know, I think uh obviously we're we were paying attention to this space a lot, but uh the top department, the DOE also opened a hundred million dollar call for non-lithium long duration energy storage pilots. That's fantastic. Yes. So we'll see, we'll see uh where what comes of that. Uh that was that was another, yeah, yeah. So that was another one that was very interesting that kind of popped to the you know, I don't know when that was. I just saw that out there. I'm like, okay, so it's all coming in line. Like they're they're realizing that there are there are these things out there that they really need to get behind. And yeah, thank you, Westinghouse. We're behind you. Yes, no kidding.
SPEAKER_01:Uh uh listen, we're we're up over the hour, Dave. So um, do you have a final thought to wrap this up with?
SPEAKER_00:I just I don't really just uh we we appreciate we appreciate all the the listeners and everybody listening and the feedback, and uh you know we'll we'll keep doing what we do, and it's just good to be able to talk about these issues. And you know, I think everybody in my in my immediate circle, my family uh and and friends included are probably tired of hearing me talk about uh energy, but I it it's it's quickly become one of the most exciting things I've ever talked about. Yeah, yeah, agreed. Not on my bingo card, actually, a few years ago. Right. Um, so I applaud anybody who who had it on their bingo card, you know, maybe earlier in their careers and their lives, and like, hey, this is a big deal. Right. I'm glad I'm here now. I'm glad to be able to, you know, Wayne, be able to talk uh with you about this stuff and with all of our great guests, you know, uh on a on a weekly basis. You bet.
SPEAKER_01:And we're just gonna keep on delivering as much value as we possibly can for you guys. We sincerely appreciate you joining us week in, week out. We'll just keep doing what we do and uh come back for the next episode. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Well, until next time on the Frontier Line.
