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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Company Spotlight- Kairos Power
Good afternoon friends, welcome back. Welcome back everyone to the Frontier Line. Excited to be on the Frontier Line today, we are going to give you guys another exciting company spotlight and if you've been following the show or you're following the headlines or you're a nuclear enthusiast, you're going to love this episode. Enthusiast, you're going to love this episode. So Dave and I are going to be covering a company that's been in the headlines regularly in the past year, plus really, in the last many months, because we've got some big kind of advancements, but Kairos Power. Kairos Power is an innovative nuclear energy company founded back in 2016. And their mission is to enable the world's transition to clean energy. They're singularly focused on developing and commercializing the fluoride salt-cooled high-temperature reactor, an advanced nuclear technology designed to provide safe, affordable and clean energy. Okay, so that's the kickoff Kairos Power.
Speaker 2:I like the nuclear friendly, we're nuclear friendly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, yes. Look guys, we have been like a broken record on the show. We really believe that the future of energy is nuclear. I mean, the smr market is rapidly advancing. Uh, the the advent of ai is really pushing causality like a reason for nuclear to advance rapidly, you know, and we haven't had that reason really, I think, in years past until now, really really last year, maybe this, maybe this AI boom technically started in 2022, but in 2024, really, like the third and fourth quarters, the hockey stick went from gradual to straight up. On power demand, you know where we were seeing. Um, I was just reading the other day about not to get too far into the weeds here, but atlanta city was reporting that their, their energy demands have gone up 46 x in the last two years. 46 x guys, 46 times the energy demand in atlanta. So that's, that's one little micro, you know micro market that's seeing this explosion and that's really a great reflection and so that's a lot I didn't know that, I hadn't read that that's a lot, it's incredible, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we are real champions, real cheerleaders. We're cheering from the sidelines for these SMR developers like Kairos Power to work through the FERC regulatory process and develop these new technologies and bring these SMRs to market at scale. New technologies and bring these SMRs to market at scale. Dave, do you want to give just a knee jerk on some of your thoughts on Kairos power, as we've kind of touched on them in the headlines in the last few months?
Speaker 2:We have and I mean I probably just you know. I could start with a couple of their kind, of their headline achievements in this last year the Hermes demonstration reactor. So that was in July of this last year, in 2024. They commenced construction of the Hermes low-power demonstration reactor in Oak Ridge, tennessee, yep. The project marked the first next-generation reactor approved for construction by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the NRC, in 50 years. That's huge. And the first non-lightwater reactor licensed in the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the NRC, in 50 years. That's huge. And the first non-light water reactor licensed in the US that's huge too.
Speaker 1:Huge and guys for the listeners. The point of clarity here this is a 35 megawatt thermal is the measurement. Megawatt thermal is a heat. It's megawatts in heat, not electricity production. It's megawatts in heat, not electricity production. But that's why you know, as Dave was just saying, it's a non-power demonstration reactor. It's not producing electricity, but it is producing heat, and we'll get deeper into the details on why that matters.
Speaker 2:Right and they're expected to achieve criticality by 2026, serving as a pivotal step towards the commercialization of Kairos Power's fluoride salt-cooled high-temperature reactor. It's the KPFHR is their acronym for it.
Speaker 2:So big, big big thing, and I'll just mention really quickly you know, in addition to what we're seeing on a national level right now because of AI, it's caused a lot of people to revisit where we are with nuclear, why? Because the demand's there, but then it's also there's a lot of pressure right now, so much so that the, you know, just about three months ago, the Biden administration on the way out has, you know, passed some orders on to try and speed up some of these, you know, and put some things in place to try and speed up some of the processes in getting getting these things online. The big obstacle for all these years, no one considered it because the, the, the financial hurdle was giant, still is giant, In order to just get permitted. You're talking about 75 to a couple hundred million dollars in sunken costs that you might lose, and you might come to the end of it and say you might come to the end of it and the community doesn't want it, and that still might happen. But in order to get to that point, take, you know, if you were just speculating. You're speculating. Nine figure speculation is not a game that anyone wants to play, especially when we haven't really had anything come online and and so there's a lot of movement in this area and you know a lot of it.
Speaker 2:We talk about SMRs. A lot of movement in this area and a lot of it we talk about SMRs a lot, the small modular reactors. That's driving a lot of it. This is again to refresh everybody. If you listen to us, these are SMRs, are they've been developed over the last 50 years, really, it's the technologies of all. So be very small, modular, they can produce a lot of power, but with a very small footprint and on, you know, not the, not the types of uh, not the types of fuel, not the types of modalities that were existent before but that are, but are new. And today, based upon years of military experience on submarines and all of these things, we've we've learned a lot, and so what we're seeing now and new is really, really advanced.
Speaker 2:And it's not the nuclear of my generation, it's not through my island, it's not Fukushima. It's nuclear for sure, but it's not those things. It's different, it's safer and, ultimately, with the amount of nuclear already in line in the world, if you look at it on whole, it's still really safe. Yeah, you know, we can point to three major incidents Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. There have been some minor ones along the way, but three with all the nuclear. That's online right now, and so if you look at it like as a percentage, it's not a lot.
Speaker 2:But again, when it happens, when it goes bad, it really goes bad, and that's the problem. This stuff has been even developed beyond bat on the on on those safety protocols, to where they just it's just entirely different. Plus, they've got ones that are really trying to get away from using water and you know where you've got radiated water. So there's, there's just so much, so many advances. So there's a lot of pressure on our federal government, coming back to this, to get these things going and let and and get the regulate not regular, not bad relation, get, get the red tape out of the way, put them through the process. But there's so much built in and it was just so slow. The agency couldn't have just so slow, yeah, and so now we finally see a lot of these different projects.
Speaker 1:So the agency, was developed around the old technology.
Speaker 2:It was, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:And the old fusion technology. Now we're talking about fission technology. You know Kairos obviously has proprietary tech in their stack, but I think another thing that is unique about them is an iterative development approach, and it includes rapid prototyping and testing, in-house manufacturing capabilities and vertical integration strategy. We mentioned the Hermes, which is the 35-megawatt thermal demonstration reactor, but then they follow that up with the Hermes II, which is a 28-megawatt electrical power-producing demonstration plant, also for Oak Ridge. So that's part of that iterative strategy.
Speaker 2:And then you want me to touch on their partnership with Google.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely. Because every investor in this space is interested in. How do you prove consumer demand? If you're going to invest in something, how can you reflect consumer demand? You know, if you're going to invest in something, how do you, how can you reflect consumer demand for this?
Speaker 2:product. And so, yes, I mean the small company Google. Yeah, in October so in October just this last year, 2024, they entered into an agreement with Google to develop and deploy a series of advanced nuclear power projects totaling 500 megawatts by 2035. These small modular reactors, smrs, are intended to provide low-carbon electricity for Google's data centers, underscoring the growing interest in nuclear energy as a sustainable solution for high-demand computing infrastructure.
Speaker 1:And I think that's one of the most exciting things is that this is a fleet of advanced nuclear power plants. This is not one big 500-megawatt reactor. This is a fleet of DERs to be spread out and meet the needs of Google in multiple locations right First one coming online in 2030. So we're only five years out, assuming that FERC allows them to move through that process and actually approve that for deployment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So really good to see, because you get a big company like that behind it, you get the federal government obviously you know, it certainly seems like they're trying to make this happen, I think you know they are set to really do some good things and they'll be the company. In about 10 years they will become the household name that we all hear about.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. You know, in a list of historic events you've already touched on two of those. This also this thing with Google. This agreement marks the first corporate agreement for multiple deployments of a single advanced reactor designed in the USA, making history. They have also got some pretty nice recognition and achievements in the past couple of years. One notable recognition named on Cleantech Group's 2024 Global Cleantech 100 list. For the second consecutive year, they were the winner of the 2022 Bloomberg New Energy Finance Pioneer Award and they've consistently recognized as top workplace in the Bay Area and New Mexico. So Kairos employs a little over 400 staff as of last year, 2024, and they continue to work towards the goal of providing the clean, affordable, safe nuclear energy to support this transition.
Speaker 2:Here's a headline on Kairos from the MIT's Technology Review, which, if anybody's familiar with it, a very sober, very serious publication where they review all the new technology coming coming out. And, um, in October last year this was the headline 2024 climate tech companies to watch Cairo's power. And it's molten salt cooled nuclear reactors. The company, the company's technology, could usher in a new era of reactors that are cheaper and safer to operate. Um, and it says uh, you know then. Then it goes on it was written by Mark Harris.
Speaker 2:So Mark Harris goes on to say the nuclear industry in much of the world can seem stuck 30 years in the past thanks to an outdated fleet of huge fission reactors that remain expensive to build and operate and are haunted by safety concerns. Kairos wants to change that with small, safe, modular reactors that could be cost-competitive with the cheapest fossil fuel, natural gas. Ironically, it hopes to use molten salt-cooled reactors, a technology pioneered and then abandoned in the 1950s and 60s in favor of designs that were further along at the time. Kairos will use a molten salt called, if I get this wrong, flibby, yeah, flib, flibby, Flibe, yeah, flibe, flibe, flibe.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which contains fluorine, lithium and beryllium, to cool its fission reactor and then transport the heat it absorbs to a steam turbine to generate power.
Speaker 2:Today's reactors use water for the same task, which requires an expensive ultra-high-pressure containment system and is less efficient overall. Kairos also uses a modern, which requires an expensive ultra-high pressure containment system and is less efficient overall. Kairos also uses a modern nuclear fuel called TRISO, which is made up of tiny kernels of uranium, carbon and oxygen encapsulated within protective layers of carbon and ceramic. These particles are then embedded into golf ball-sized graphite pebbles. This form of fuel could enable safer, cheaper nuclear reactors, since each particle acts as its own containment system and is highly resistant to corrosion, oxidation and melting. Together, the fuel and molten salt cooling systems should mean Kairos' reactor is passively safe, so that even if power is interrupted as it was at a fission reactor in Fukushima in 2011, to disaster effect, the reactor will remain stable. That you know. There you go. That's what they're going for and I applaud them. It's been fun to kind of read about them or watch them and see how they're coming to market, and they have great promise.
Speaker 1:What's cool about that, and maybe I wasn't able to find this in my research on Kairos, but if anyone's followed nuclear as we have, then we know. There's this conversation around spent fuel rods in the old technology and what happens after fuel rods are spent. Where does that go? Because that that nuclear, uh, that nuclear energy or the toxicity of it, is radioactive material very, very hard to store or dispose of, because it can last hundreds of years, thousands of years has a half-life thousands, thousands, thousands, so it's not Thousands of years, so it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's not, it's yeah. Its intensity is diminishing very quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, I had a conversation with a very, very high-ranking official here in Utah just a week or two ago talking about, you know, spent fuel rods being stored in the Utah West Desert from some of those old reactors. Do you have an understanding with kairos and this new fuel and these golf ball-sized pellets, what the disposition plan of that fuel is? I think that would be really interesting to understand.
Speaker 2:I haven't read it yet, but let's take a look. Okay.
Speaker 1:So, based on public information, it sounds like there's a variety of possibilities. This disposition, program and plan is something in development. It is.
Speaker 2:It looks like. I mean, from all the things that are available right now, overall they'd say absolutely this is a much better, much safer technology. They're still into solving how to deal with the spent fuel, and so just to kind of explain the difference between what we're used to and how this salt-cooled, high-temperature works, is the storage process, for this is they have spent fuel. Pebbles is what we're dealing with here. So initial storage used pebbles are placed in canisters each holding approximately 2,100 fuel pebbles. Then there's a water cooling. Filled canisters are first stored in a water-cooled storage pool to allow for rapid decay, heat reduction, then there's air cooling. After the initial cooling period, fuel canisters are transferred to a larger air-cooled storage cavity and in long-term storage, the air-cooled cavity is designed with an estimated conservative storage capacity of 192 canisters, sufficient for about 10 years of licensed reactor operation, and most right now they're indicating they're going to store on site.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, the advantages of these MSRs, these molten salt reactors, is that they have inherent passive safety features, including the ability to drain fuel salt and to save containment tanks in case of emergencies. There's just lots of really pros. You know, long-term what they're looking at is you know there's a. You know I found a handful of solutions. There's lots of solutions coming online. I think they have really good solutions in order to mitigate what would be maybe equivalent to the way we've had spent fuel in the past and you know there's an amount of spent fuel. We've got to deal with it. We know there's always been a debate in this country does it go to in nevada and yucca mountain? What's going to happen? It still has to be solved, but there are even some, especially with msrs. There are some solutions that even have it being used again in production.
Speaker 1:So yeah, reprocessing or recycling, recycling material right, ideal, right.
Speaker 2:Um, they have a thing called helmet waste form. The proposed solution involves incorporating the used nuclear fuel, unf salt, into an insoluble matrix such as an intimate mixture of salt and metal termed a helmet. This approach may allow for direct disposal with minimal processing. Another one stabilization and immobilization. Another one stabilization and immobilization. Given the hygroscopic nature of salts, they will likely require long-term immobilization. Specialty phosphate, glass and glass-bonded mineral and ceramic waste forms are being investigated for various MSR fuel cycles and salt types. Another one active monitoring degassing I mentioned that before where you would monitor this and then degas it in water and let it come off.
Speaker 2:Reprocessing and actinide recovery Some MSR designs allow for actinide recovery and reuse as fuel. This process could significantly reduce the volume of long-lived radioactive waste requiring storage. Salt processing. Another one, converting the water-soluble salts into insoluble forms, is necessary for long-term disposal. Various processing methods, including electro-refining for uranium recovery, are being explored. Air-cooled containers the high temperature tolerance of fuel salt may allow for transfer to air-cooled containers without using a used fuel pool, potentially simplifying storage requirements. And then, a thing that they're calling sourdough refueling method this innovative approach proposes reusing spent nuclear fuel by adding it to fuel salt in a molten salt reactor, potentially mitigating the need for long-term storage of high-level nuclear waste Awesome.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's. You know that's where that. You know that's where they're, they're, they're looking at it right, you know that's where this is all going right now and again, like anything else, it's an industry that, even though this is this technology, has been around since the 50s or 60s. It was kind of let go, and so now not only do they have to solve how to do this the right way on creating the energy, but then they've got to figure out how to solve it on the dealing with the spent fuel. And we'll see. And I think that's optimistic, I think it's, you know, when there's interest, there's money, when all that's aligned, when there's political interest, I think we'll move it down. And again I say I throw AI into the mix. Oh yeah, put all this data into a giant you know some sort of a you know very science driven LLM, and let it chunk on this and see if it can come up with clever solutions that you know people, uh, scientists, haven't thought of yet, and I think we're.
Speaker 2:I think you know, the way I'm looking is they have a way to deal with it that's as safe as anything out there now, if not more safe. It's safer as a system now by a long shot as far as the energy production. And then I'm, you know, I feel confident from what I've seen, that they will find a solution that works. So that's what I've found and that's what appears to be out there regarding that.
Speaker 1:Well, continuing to give you guys out there listening detail the nitty-gritty as you will. Let's talk about project costs and numbers here, because I like to talk about the numbers. So Pyro's powers expansion and development plans involve some significant investments. Total project costs approximately $300 million. Building and real property improvements $92 million with equipment, furniture, fixtures of $208 million. They've applied for a $300 million industrial revenue bond from the city of Albuquerque, new Mexico, to support the expansion.
Speaker 1:They have received project financing from the US Department of Energy $303 million from the Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program, ardp, for the Hermes reactor that's awesome and up to $303 million under a performance-based fixed-price milestone approach for the Hermes demonstration reactor.
Speaker 1:Obviously, they've raised some funds from private investors, got some self-funding through working capital. There are a few small government incentives Looks like $3 million in local economic development act funding from New Mexico, about a half a million from the city of Albuquerque's LIDA fund, about a half a million from the city of Albuquerque's LIDA fund. And then they've got some eligibility here for New Mexico's high wage jobs tax credit and manufacturing investment tax credit and another 1.8 million in job training incentive program funding to train 100 new employees. Economic impact is something that we're all focused on and we're all excited to improve. This project in particular is expected to have a substantial economic impact estimated total impact of up to $478 million to New Mexico over 10 years, creation of 100 high-wage jobs with an average salary of over $100,000, and the city of Albuquerque is projected to receive approximately $12.6 million in net benefits over a 10-year period. So that's a really good financial snapshot of zero to several hundred million, and how you get there, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you know, to kind of point out, you know just the landscape of where Kairos Power finds themselves, I mean, and they aren't the only company that is trying to solve this in their own unique way. You've got TerraPower, bwxt, advanced Technologies, new Scale Power, westinghouse and Flibby Flibby. Yeah, flib, Flibby Fly yeah, I got to look that up and figure out how to pronounce that yeah for sure, energy. So you know other SMR companies that are out there. You know, as far as this last year trying to come to market, kairos is definitely down the road with this.
Speaker 2:I mean, they seem to have probably captured most of the headlines because they're the ones out there. You know, obviously, in partnering with Google and everything else they're doing, they really are leading the pack. But this is an industry that is, you know, newer and developing and developing quickly, and we're going to see more and more and more and more of it. Yeah, you know different approaches to and developing quickly, and we're going to see more and more and more and more of it. Yeah, you know different approaches to how you do this, but they seem to be, they seem to be way out in front right now and and probably for the foreseeable future?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because we're so people focused at Invictus Sovereign. I want to dig into founders and key executives a little bit, because the people behind it, this is the brains behind the machine and I want to give a proper shout out to the guys that have created Kairos. So Kairos was founded by three initial partners co-founder, chief nuclear officer, dr Per Peterson. Co-founder and chief technology officer, dr Edward Blandford. And co-founder and CEO, dr Mike Laufer. Now Mike, as a CEO, is responsible, obviously, for your typical CEO operations. He holds a bachelor's in mechanical engineering from Stanford and a PhD in nuclear engineering from the University of California Berkeley. So high-level guy, clearly, clearly a good leader to be able to take it this far and looks like the future for Kairos is bright. Ed Blanford, chief technology officer, has a background in academia. He was actually an assistant professor at the University of New Mexico's Department of Nuclear Engineering and then Per Peterson serves as chief nuclear officer and I can't publicly find where Dr Peterson gets his background to become the chief nuclear officer. That'd be another interesting deep dive, let's do it.
Speaker 2:Let's take a look.
Speaker 1:Let's take a look.
Speaker 2:We'll see that quickly. Look at that, I found it Okay. Dr Per Peterson is co-founder, obviously, as you said, and the chief nuclear officer. His background includes BS in mechanical engineering from the University of Nevada, Reno, ms in mechanical engineering from UC Berkeley. Phd in mechanical engineering from UC Berkeley. Professor at UC Berkeley since August 1990. Chaired the nuclear engineering department at UC Berkeley 2005 and 2009 and 2012. Chaired the energy and resources group at UC Berkeley 1998 to 2000. Worked at Bechtel on high-level radioactive waste processing 82 to 85. Co-founder and chief nuclear officer since July of 2017. Notable achievements elected to the National Academy of Engineering in February 2020.
Speaker 2:Fellow of the American Nuclear Society 2002. Served on the Blue Ribbon Commission on America's Nuclear Future 2010 to 2012. Holds a professional engineering license in mechanical engineering from the state of California. Dr Peterson's research is focused on heat transfer, fluid mechanics, regulation and licensing for high-temperature reactors, particularly designs using liquid fluoride salts as coolants. His work has contributed to the development of passive safety systems used in advanced reactor designs. Awesome, seems like an amazing person to be leading. Helping lead Kairos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. Just focusing a little bit more on on the accolades of Mike Laufer, focusing on CEO, for me it's critical who's running the ship. He also received the American Nuclear Society presidential citation in 2024, and Kairos Power received the presidential citation from the American Nuclear Society recognizing their contributions. And then the Department of Energy Award, the ARDP Award, in 2024, also signaled by that $303 million financing round from the DOE. Doe, I mean to navigate the DOE's qualification process in the first place. We know something about that. That takes a lot of business acumen, a lot of financial prowess, a lot of entrepreneurial prowess, patience, patience, lots of patience. Absolutely, that's no easy feat, uh, in fact, there are companies that we uh, that we know of, who actually their sole focus is to help businesses navigate the process of the department of energy and securing financing. So, so hats off to um, to kairos, and particularly mike laufer, for being able to navigate that effectively, you know, and land a 300 million dollar uh financing well and kudos to he.
Speaker 2:He's, he's a relatively young guy. Yeah, I mean, you know he, if he went to, he got his bs, his bs in 2002, uh, 2006, you know, yeah, he's I'm gonna say just over 40, 40. I mean, so he's just so far, that's, and he's been doing this since 2016. Yeah, that's impressive. I mean, that's that's, that's an impressive feat. You know, I'm sure he's fought an uphill battle and uh, uh, just not only that, but also just the you know the amount of, sometimes, as we know, the amount of experience and kind of wisdom that comes from seeing things multiple times and then when somebody gets it really right and they're young, I mean it's an impressive, it really truly is impressive, absolutely, especially in this space.
Speaker 1:Well, and Mike obviously possesses one of those key ingredients as a strong CEO, which is bringing the right people to the team. And you have the three founding partners. You've also got Jeffrey Olson as the vice president of business development and finance, and we all know what business development entails. I mean that is the going out into the world and enrolling companies like Google in the whole idea and landing contract like that, companies like Google in the whole idea and landing contract, like that. So you know, jeffrey is named. As you know, the four key executives are the three founders and Jeffrey, so I mean that's the Kairos team.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and it truly. I mean, you know, as we know, just having spent a little bit of time learning, seeing, I would say, steep, but I don't know if we're steep in that side of the, that part of the industry just yet.
Speaker 1:We want to be steep. I'm steeping my tea right now. You are steeping your tea.
Speaker 2:Just to have to deal with the regulatory hurdles, yeah Right, and you know, and, and just just having to go through that, having to deal with the cost and schedule management when you have investors in a product that just doesn't move, it's not going to move quickly, right, you've got. Not only is it technically complex, but then you also have the complexities of just navigating the space, commercializing the product in a, in a, in a, you know, in a way that is actually acceptable, because nuclear is not, it hasn't been 10, you know, know, 2016, nuclear would arguably be, you know, to a lot of, probably a lot more people, like a dirty word, yeah, and a very, you know, uh, so just just going through all the skepticism and being able to acquire talent and and then, and then the, you know, demonstrating the viability of what they're they're doing, through all that, that is not, that's an. That's a truly impressive accomplishment.
Speaker 1:Well, and it takes really big, you know what, to actually have a risk tolerance, to recognize the regulatory process of FERC and what the environment is in the US and despite all of that, having the conviction to press forward into it without the guarantees. I mean that is a true maverick, it's a true entrepreneur. You know American entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial spirit right to be able to go and do that and then successfully. You know, bring it to this the the position that they are um, just more on the financials, interesting to note that the company has invested over $125 million in capital in its Albuquerque site alone over the last four years. To put that in perspective, because we know what acquiring land and developing a site looks like. So what I like the most about reporting on something well, reporting is not the right word what I like most about studying up on and focusing and sharing with our listeners about a company like Kairos is the implications that it has for us.
Speaker 1:Valley Forge Impact Parks. Yes, you know you guys have been paying attention and you understand. Yes, you know we're committed to certain baseload power modalities, but we also have a really strong commitment and ambition for a unique energy mix and working with Schneider Electric in particular to develop and leverage their you know exostructure AI power management platform so that we can bolt on new power generation modalities. And so for us, in each of the Valley Forge Impact Park sites, we have a placeholder for SMRs. Impact park sites we have a placeholder for SMRs. At some point in the future it is our commitment to be able to bolt an SMR or many onto a project site and be able to push that nuclear energy through that power management system and have that be a part of the unique energy mix.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, it's a bit selfish on our part, meaning like we look at these companies, but we also look at these companies and go like these are the companies we want to work with, these are the companies whose products we want to buy or use or partner with because they are doing things in the industry where they're leading it. We found ourselves in a space where we're at the bleeding edge. We're at the bleeding edge of how you solve some of these issues.
Speaker 2:We know that it's not hubris for us to say that We've been told this by very, very, very big, big organizations that have reminded us nicely that, geez, guys, you really are kind of in rarefied air because no one has thought of how to put these things together this way.
Speaker 2:And so, while we greatly appreciate that and it's nice to hear those things, it's also humbling. But that's where we look and we seek out these people who have gone, who have had these stories and where they're. They're really fighting in their own space to do and push the and push the envelope and there's kind of a natural, you know, alignment philosophically or just sort of a kinship of like, yeah, we understand, at least on some level of what, what you've been up against and we can appreciate where you're going, what you're doing and what you're trying to solve. And so then it's down the road of like how, how can we work with you? Yeah, uh, you know, we want to work with you because you're you're the right kind of company. You're the, you're the. You're the company that we can put our heads together and we can figure out how to do not only what we think is possible today, but what does it need to look like in the future.
Speaker 1:And so again, it's great to talk about companies like Kairos Well and beyond, having the opportunity to some point in the future, hopefully purchase SMRs from someone like Kairos. There's this other side of it that is a focus toward our investor constituent and that is within our impact funds being able to raise private capital and deploy private capital into innovation like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where we see market possibilities.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. So that's part of the Invictus Sovereign commitment is creating opportunity within these innovative companies that can show good track record and success and plausible future and bringing that opportunity to our investor network.
Speaker 2:Indeed, I think that's a great way to sum that all up. That's a good final last thought Wayne Absolutely Well.
Speaker 1:Thanks for your contribution and helping me research the high-rose power. Thank you.
Speaker 2:It was very interesting.
Speaker 1:So thank you Absolutely. Hope you guys enjoyed it and we'll catch you on the next episode.
Speaker 2:See you next time on the Frontier Line.
