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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Company Spotlight- Core Scientific
Welcome back to the show. Guys Happy to be in again.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, welcome. Welcome again to the Frontier Line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, today we are thinking we're going to hit another company spotlight. We love these Ready. You know it's fun to do the research right. I mean it's educational for us as much as we hope it will be for you guys. But with AI and special relationships that we have, and digging into some of these businesses we're working with and others we hope to work with is the whole objective of running company spotlights on the frontier line. And so, without further ado, I want to dive right into a company called Core Scientific. And what an interesting company. Very, very interesting company.
Speaker 2:You know we have had. I had heard of them, you know, before we did this, but I didn't. I knew you know sort of roughly what they were about, but that was about it. And then to your point, jumping in has been really fascinating.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been so interesting for me because we've had so many conversations with data center operators in the past few years and you know this whole kind of and I'm not saying that Core Scientific is in the bunch of, you know trying out there frantically trying to find energy or find power resources, but we're all kind of in the same boat on the same river when we talk about, you know, compute capacity, compute power, powering it, how we're doing it, and Bitcoin mining happens to be a very close cousin to you know, our hyperscaler. You know, like tried and true data center operators.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the last decade, it was really, they were really driving a lot of this build out. Really, yeah, was the data, was the miners? Yeah, the last decade, it was really, they were really driving a lot of this build out. Really, yeah, it was the day that it was the miners and building out these. I mean really building some of this. Not to say that, you know, the hyperscalers weren't building this infrastructure, but it was the. It was the the need for GPUs, bitcoin, mining.
Speaker 2:so you know, initially, yeah that has really led to a lot of infrastructure being built out in that space and and now we're at this cusp of where it's just it's not dropping the bucket, but it's not much more. Yeah, I mean it's, it's. It's probably a little bit more than a drop in the bucket, but we're going to need a lot more. So these are groups that have been doing this in a different way, for a different reason, but it's the same thing. They're building these things, so it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:Well, bitcoin mining is fascinating. I mean, bitcoin itself has been fascinating. I know people right here in Utah. We collectively know very, very many people that are actively involved in crypto indexing, running funds, bitcoin mining, bitcoin investing, like there's the whole gamut. I have never personally buckled in and taken the Bitcoin dive yet, although there's an index fund on crypto I'm seriously looking at. I might have I imagine you probably have, but I have some crazy stories from like going back to I don't know the first year or two after Bitcoin launched, when it was super, super, like conceptual, maybe the best word for it.
Speaker 1:There was a uh, a situation where an associate of mine, um, had had invested in some bitcoin and had an opportunity to sell some from a guy from vegas. And he's texting with this guy and this guy's driving up from vegas with a duffel bag of cash and he's like hey man, I I'm not comfortable meeting this guy with cash. I mean it's a little unnerving to me. I'm bringing my laptop and you know my flex drive, my little thumb drive or whatever, and I'm gonna just transfer. Can you come and like bring a marker and like help me like validate that these are real bills? And I literally sat in a shop with this guy counting out. I won't say how much it was, it was a lot. It was a duffel bag full of hundreds and I just sat there randomly going through bills with one of those markers while he was kind of going.
Speaker 1:The guy on his computer that he had the code for the Bitcoin blew my mind and everyone has the stories of selling out way too early. These are back in the days when they got a little bump on it in like a year and it's been super sketch and we've had some big crashes and people have lost a lot in. Bitcoin obviously Feels like Bitcoin has established itself in the global markets. Now I've heard that total market cap is somewhere in the neighborhood of the global gold market, so that tells you it's not going anywhere. It's here to stay?
Speaker 2:I think it's not, and you have the Charlie Mungers and the Warren Buffetts of the world who have been very negative and say they don't understand it. They don't get it all the way to the other side of this. But ultimately it was about a medium of exchange, it was about a store of value and how we can do these things a little bit differently. And you know, it's proving itself in the market space. And now you know I just saw yesterday you know there's a lot of speculation for a while about where it was going to go and where it could, because there's, you know, there's certain expectations on what it would cap out at. And you know, now I'm seeing where, where even some very serious financial people who were probably not, let's say, as bullish on Bitcoin are now saying they could see this going to a million dollars a coin which there have been those in the industry that have been saying that for the last five or seven years.
Speaker 2:Sure, uh, we know a few of them, yeah, um, but I've also. You know, and again, you know, it's the stories. And when I got into the space, you know, and talking to developers and kind of the technology behind the ledger system and why, and this and that and the other, I mean you know there's somebody here in Utah that contributed to, from a development point of view, to the original chain, yeah, and you know he could tell you stories of how he paid for pizzas and you know he could tell you stories of how he paid for pizzas, literally pizzas with a Bitcoin or Bitcoin for a pizza. Now, in that day, a $200,000 pizza. But you know that takes. You have to hold it. You have to just basically hold it and forget about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, yeah, and there is a game and there's all kinds of things and I mean there's a lot to it, but it's a. You know, I've been, I've been watching the industry for a while now and it's a. It's a fascinating market space. I think the technology is there. I think it's the utility of it that is finally coming around. There was a lot of there's a lot of BS. To start, I would say you know speculation and lots of just people coming in and making a quick buck and you know screwing a lot of investors over.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a lot of that stuff Starting to weed out a lot of that and some of the utilities finally being exposed to why this is valuable and why it could be valuable and say why Ethereum, the next evolution of it was. Well, now you can do contracts, you can embed contracts and all all those kinds of things and you know, whatever the chains are, you know I've been trying to solve fascinating space and and you know, companies like for scientific they've been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They've been. They've been doing this thing for a while now and you know, and they're continuing to find ways to evolve. Obviously, the you know, the Bitcoin market took a huge hit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you know, a company like more scientific had to kind of reinvent themselves or figure out how they're going to weather this storm, to get to the other side of this, and they have successfully figured out how to do that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I would agree. I mean I, you know, for the listeners benefit here. I think everyone understands what we're saying when we say Bitcoin mining, so we won't dive into the mechanics of what that is. But at the center of this, core Scientific is really a company focused in the Bitcoin mining, which, by definition, is operations in blockchain and high-performance computing, and we're going to get into some of these KPIs of what it means to be categorized in high-performance computing. It's really astounding.
Speaker 1:But, like you said, core Scientific has survived some serious events in the cryptocurrency space, in the Bitcoin space specifically. At the helm, I think, of a lot of this repositioning or reinventing has been Adam Sullivan, the current chief executive officer and director, and Adam's been the CEO since August 2nd of 2023. So he's kind of new there, but it was interesting to read a little bit about Adam and understand that he actually was the managing director and head of digital assets and infrastructure group at XMS Capital Partners. So, coming from a strong background in finance, to me that's a really positive skill set. That's a really positive sector for someone to be transitioning from into this operational acumen. That's so niche and so it feels like adam is a great guy for the job apparently.
Speaker 2:Uh he did a heck of a job.
Speaker 1:You know bring that around, do you want to?
Speaker 2:touch on that turnaround. Yeah, I I'll, uh, I'm gonna go to so that I don't uh, so I don't uh get any of the details wrong, I'm gonna go to the more of a kind of a dialogue on what occurred. So they went through a financial restructuring. So in January 2024, so this time last year Core Scientific successfully completed its reorganization under Chapter 11 of the US Bankruptcy Code, merging with a strengthened balance sheet. The reorganization reduced the company's debt by approximately $400 million through the conversion of equipment, lender and convertible note holder debt to equity. The company resumed trading on the Nasdaq global select market under the ticker symbol CORZ on January 24, 2024.
Speaker 2:Adam led that. Adam was the one that helped restructure that and get them out, and part of the reason they they, you know they struggled is because the bottom fell out of Bitcoin and so they were just not able to keep up with the payments. They had to turn things off. It wasn't. It was more expensive for them to keep these things turned on because it wasn't mine. So all of those things happened. Obviously, the markets changed some and so they're, you know they're. They just had to figure out a way to get through it. He did that and uh, they are. They're really moving forward fast and they've done some amazing they. They had an infrastructure in place already. Now they're just charged to go and continue on doing what they've done so well.
Speaker 1:Awesome, you know. Touching on the financials here, year to-to-date, 2024, total revenue they're reporting a little over $415 million. So this is not a trivial company. Here we're talking about real numbers, big numbers.
Speaker 2:Their stock increase since they did this last year, January last year. Did you see the percentage? No, Take a guess.
Speaker 1:Stock increase in the past year. In the past year.
Speaker 2:Since 2024. Since bankruptcy Coming out of bankruptcy, I mean it actually blew me away.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to embarrass myself.
Speaker 2:That's okay, 400%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's incredible work. Over this last year, they've increased their stock price 400%.
Speaker 1:Adjusted EBITDA last year was $144.2 million. Well, $144.2 million Significant Okay, so very respectable company. As I was digging into some of the technology and focusing on some of these KPIs, I wanted to share some of this with the listeners, because Bitcoin mining for the average Joe is kind of this nebulous, like almost feels space age. You know you've got a bunch of computers stacked up in a warehouse and you hear these stories about. You know like draining all the power out of the city. You know like that much compute power, um, and and we've all heard those stories, I think but um, they may have them.
Speaker 2:The incredible hulk when he bites the, that's his dad, it was a you know. Uh, yeah, yeah, and he bites the power cord and goes this thing and pull the power from every yeah, that's. I think that's kind of everybody's sort of mental vision of these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Let's see, I've got to go down to this KPI section here that I have, okay, okay, so what I when I wanted to share with you guys was the um, this, this, this main metric, it, which is the total energized hash rate.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then I'm learning something by the, by the second, literally like digging into I haven't paid enough attention to this, but the total, what they're reporting for total energized hash rate, is 20.1 exahashes per second. Okay, now, that's a key performance metric for Core Scientific's Bitcoin mining operations and that represents the combined computational power of all the company's active mining machines. Okay, so, to break that down a little, break that down a little further, understanding the metric that hash rate this measures the number of calculations in a mining device can perform per second. It is, it's essentially the speed at which the miner can attempt to solve the cryptographic puzzles required to mine new bitcoin blocks. Okay, exa hashes per second is the unit that represents quintillions of hashes per second. So the significance of this reporting of 20.1 exahashes in the mining capacity is that their hash rate indicates that Core Scientific's equipment can perform approximately 20.1 quintillion calculations per second in an attempt to mine Bitcoin.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, staggering right yeah, the amount of compute is staggering.
Speaker 1:So one could only surmise that when you are running such hyper-compute capacity, what your energy consumption could look like Well, significant I mean, and so yeah, so like hundreds of megawatts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things that's related to that that I stumbled across that is kind of critical, and you and I talk about this a lot is the amount of kilowatts per rack. So let me throw some numbers out to you, because we've we've discussed that, and when you, because we've discussed that, and when you're modeling out data centers and when you're building these things, part of the reason you're wondering about kilowatt hours per rack is it's basically the amount of heat and what you're doing and there's lots of considerations. So Core Scientific is at the forefront of developing high performance data centers capable of supporting AI workloads. This is kind of what they're doing right now. Their facilities are designed to handle substantial power densities, with some server racks requiring up to 130 kilowatts, and plans to increase capacity to 400 kilowatt per rack, so which we know would position them as a key player in AI infrastructure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know it's not long. Like currently there's talk, you know you're talking about 40 or 50 kilowatts is a very standard thing right now. Yeah, so to double that is something To 10x, that you know, 8x, that 9x, that is something very significant, which is why what they're currently doing, and based upon their traffic of experience, is very exciting in this ai space wow, you know, that really has implication.
Speaker 1:That really has implications on um. Drilling into the significance of the exa hash and that compute power, talk about network share. Um, this represents a significant portion of the exahash and that compute power. Talk about network share. This represents a significant portion of the total bitcoin network hash rate, which was around 733.41 exahashes a second as of july 2024. So the competitive positioning with that high hash rate makes core scientific one of the largest bitcoin miners in the world. In the world I I'm very effective. I think I think it was saying somewhere I read that that they were actually the largest in north america yeah, so this is.
Speaker 1:This is just like. This is a one.
Speaker 2:This is one of the primary authorities in bitcoin mining right and they will continue to do that, but then their solves are such that obviously it has this has application in the ai, in Bitcoin mining this past year, because they're making all of the reasonable moves for all the people who are in the know in the business going okay. They're doing all that. First of all, they got a great foundation. They just had to. They had to reorganize and do that in order to deal with, you know, increased power. You know power costs and bitcoin prices dropping, but those things are changing. Now that they've fixed that, they're building on this terrific infrastructure and doing things in this space that are really truly on the bleeding edge of where are pushing the frontiers yeah, absolutely Of all the spaces that we're seeing, and so I'm excited to see.
Speaker 1:Well, I love to hear that you know. The result of all of this hash rate is a security contribution to the blockchain. Another buzz term is blockchain. I can remember when blockchain first became a thing and we're all trying to figure out how to do real estate on the blockchain Right. But because Core Scientific has such a large contribution to this globally, they're actually able to enhance the overall security and robustness of the blockchain Right. So that's moving the needle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah, they'll have all these centers and you have all these nodes right and you know, the stronger they are, the more robust they are. Then the least likely or less likely it's going to be that they're going to be impacted on any global scale. So you know it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:So, to put a little bit more context on this, last month Core Scientific reported controlling over 164,000 Bitcoin miners. If anyone's wondering, like, how many machines does it take to, like you know, build that much computer, that much mining capacity? 164,000 Bitcoin miners, do you happen to know, like, how much space that takes? You know what? What does one bitcoin mining machine take up? Do you know? Well, it's space, or like it's, yeah, like a footprint inside a building.
Speaker 2:Oh, I well, I imagine probably it's. I would imagine it's just like a normal, like rack kind of a thing. Okay, that's what I was saying. I would like a normal like well, not normal, but I'm thinking like a gaming right, you know, kind of a box, yeah, but I think they're. They're industrial versions and so they're industrial kind of racks, so it'd be like a you see them in like the multimedia racks, and so you can probably have you know however many units would be in a particular rack, and and then yeah, I would imagine what 10, 12 units right that might, that might be completely wrong, yeah, um well, I don't know, does it?
Speaker 1:it say there no, I should Google it. I should just expand my search on that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know like what you know, what you know how many of these? What? What happens in a 320 or not a 320, but, like, when you get in these kilowatts, like these bigger racks, what does that mean? Like, what is? It's more robust GPUs, it's more robust computing, but is it the same? How many? What does that mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I wonder. You know well my main question here I'm going to find out how much space does it take for 164 unit, 164 000 mining units? Because we know that they have operations in like seven different states yeah, texas, north dakota and others and so it would be interesting to understand the footprint of one of their operations is kind of where I'm trying to back into. I gotcha well, here's.
Speaker 2:The good thing is that we can just go to the uh. You know, we can go to the uh, go to the uh ai and probably figure this out pretty, pretty darn fast. Um, yeah, it's we did it.
Speaker 1:Did you get an answer? Well, I'm seeing that, uh, racks could hold 80 miners each, okay, and so we're talking about two, a little over 2,000 racks, and these are standard rack sizes, as you mentioned. So you know, a typical ratio suggests about a hundred thousand square feet for a large-scale mining operation, so fair. So to put that in into a conclusion, 164 thousand mining units means a facility of approximately 100,000 square feet, and I'm guessing that they don't have that. Well, I know they don't have that all in one spot, because in the case of Peso and, I think, denton, texas, we're talking about power purchase agreements in the neighborhood of 20 megawatts for a facility. So they've got it split up where they can find the power, and I think that's one of the things I want to drive home in the research was.
Speaker 1:This is what gets me excited, anyways, is understanding the quest for power and understanding what we know about some of these states and what that pricing might look like.
Speaker 2:Um, their revenue is a direct correlation on energy pricing, right and so I think, which is why they had to, part of the reason they actually had to go through this is because the energy prices were creeping up. We were in and then, in addition to the Bitcoin, you know pricing falling out the bottom and all that. That's where you know it's a one-two punch. And, point being, the cost of energy matters a lot, absolutely Not that that doesn't to any other thing, but it's specifically to them. I mean, they have to shut down operations almost if they get too expensive. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we know that every cent per kilowatt makes a difference. It does, and it can range dramatically. We know California residential homeowners pay more than double, almost triple the rate that we pay here in Utah, and so where you're choosing your locations makes a big deal. We pay here in Utah, and so where you're choosing your locations makes a big deal. Yeah, or it is a big factor on how profitable an operation like this could be.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. One of the things I want to mention about Core Scientific. They did just in the latter part of this last year was they announced a partnership with CoreWeave. Oh, the collaboration is what they're calling it. Well, june 2024 is kind of when this happened, but then they've had some things happen since then, so they entered into a significant agreement with CoreWeave, and CoreWeave is an AI hyperscaler. Okay, they have to provide 200 megawatts of hosting capacity for high-performance computing operations by October of this last year, coreweave exercised its option to contract an additional 120 megawatts, bringing the total to 320 megawatts. This partnership underscores CoreScientific's pivotal role in supporting AI infrastructure. That's awesome, yes.
Speaker 1:Well, if you bleed into that quantum computing category, then that makes a lot of sense, which it sounds like they are. I mean, it sounds like the origin is Bitcoin mining, but this is rapidly expanding to meet other certain demands If you've got infrastructure, like they have.
Speaker 2:Like anything else, you're going to go and put your resources where you think you can maximize the dollar, and right now we know AI. There's giant demand for computing AI which, depending upon the day, might be outpacing what you could make in your typical Bitcoin mining operation, depending upon what that's paying. Given the price of Bitcoin right now it's good and we'll see if it dips again or if it goes up like some people were expecting, even from where it is, where you know this goes back to this Apple conversation that maybe 10 years ago, like people said, well, it's really expensive, but since then it's really done really well. And that's where they're saying with Bitcoin yeah, it's expensive, but it also could 10x, yeah, so again, it's an interesting it's we're going to have. You know what it tells me I mean I'm looking at this is that you know where Bitcoin's kind of settling in and obviously, post-election, seeing where this is going is there's comfort and there are bigger players coming into this. It's diversifying. Who's holding the Bitcoin.
Speaker 2:There are still some massive wallets out there that can impact how the Bitcoin market goes, but it's finally being adopted and seen as kind of this store of wealth plus all the other reasons it's being used, and you know, for a company like Core Scientific to kind of be there at the forefront and then be there as the experienced people at the day you know to say, okay, yeah, we've been here for a while, we've been doing this thing. Now we understand AI, we understand the needs, the capacities and we already have the infrastructure in place. We already have the know-how. It's going to be good to see or watch how they continue to grow and tackle the next couple of years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. You know, and one of the things that excites me too is because we put so much emphasis on the team and the quality of our core team and our secondary and tertiary kind of rings of that team. We've got a real focus on best in breed service providers and people and so headhunting certain people. It was fun to see that they brought on a new chief marketing officer recently, scott bruggeman, and he brings over 20 years of experience in digital infrastructure. Uh, he was previously uh with logic fiber networks and cyrus one. Cyrus one is one of the top 10 data center operator in the world, in the UK, and so that's, I mean in my mind, that's that fits that bill. You know, good move to bring a guy like that in on the marketing effort when you're repositioning, so repositioning growing and doing what you need to do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely they're. They're, I mean I, you know they're positioning themselves for a what appears to be quite a good 2025 and beyond. And you know, I think I've watched you and you've watched, I've watched NVIDIA. Nvidia very, you know, obviously really made the name for themselves doing miners, doing the GPUs early on in Bitcoin, really positioned that company and they really capitalized on that. And now this evolution into ai very similar.
Speaker 2:But we look at, we look to see what nvidia was, where it was and where it is now. It's stunning. Their growth, I think, you know, I'd say core scientific is on different kind of trajectory in a way or kind of different pathway, but it's a similar kind of thing. Like they were there, they're realizing how this is going to be. You know they're realizing what they learned in the mining space is going to help them capitalize into this next evolution of ai, not that mining is going away, but that ai infrastructure demand build out is just surging. So so I see that, I see the parallels between you know they could almost be seen as an early, maybe an early andVIDIA in a weird sort of way. Not weird, but just like they're.
Speaker 2:Just they're in a similar space where they made a lot of money or they made money. They went through the trials and everything else in the mining in the early days of mining and now they're evolving into something bigger yeah, meeting needs. Meeting needs something bigger yeah, meeting needs Meeting needs something bigger and they have experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So they know what it's like to be in this space. They know the pitfalls, the challenges, the opportunities. So that's off to them.
Speaker 1:It's fun to see that part of their expansion is in Denton, texas, because we happen to know something about Denton, denton, texas. Because we happen to know something about Denton, because the power plant that Burns McDonald put together for the city of Denton has something we've been following. We've actually fashioned some of our design after that Denton power plant, that combined cycle gas power plant, and Core Scientific has actually secured approval from Denton City to expand their operations with almost 400 megawatts of power allocation.
Speaker 2:I wonder if, and they were already 500. Is this another 400?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is additional. This is expanding with up to an additional 400 megawatts of power allocation.
Speaker 2:That's almost Well. I had seen a note like in I think it's 2022 where they I mean it was denton and pecos, texas, right yeah, pace up, uh pesos or pecos, it's uh, oh, geez, denton, pecos, p-e-c-o-s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, pecos, yeah, um, where they uh became the first uh group ever to mine 50 bitcoin in one day. Oh, wow, okay. So, on today's dollars, 50 Bitcoin, 5 million bucks Wow, they made $5 million, you know, $5 million in one day. Basically, if you turned around obviously sold those or did what you did, that's awesome, yeah, I mean. So. It shows the, you know. And again, it's about power, it power, it's cheap power, and that brings up a very interesting point we really haven't talked about in this whole mining space, but that was, you know, as the mining was coming on and Bitcoin mining.
Speaker 2:One of the negatives that got thrown out there a lot about Bitcoin is the amount of power it took to mine and what were we getting out of it, right? Oh yeah, we're getting mining, yeah, so what was the? What were we getting out of it? Right? Oh yeah, we're getting mining, yeah, so what was the solving? Was solving this, these complex problems? Okay, what does that mean? What does that for all of us?
Speaker 2:Um, but there was a big push in the industry, um, even on the bitcoin side, like how do we, how do we move away from being so power intensive or new modalities of doing these things, and so similar as we're seeing the ai space of like, okay, well, we can do, we can do, we can handle a certain amount, but when you get beyond what infrastructure exists, you have to start thinking creatively of how you solve these things. Yeah, so, and I, that's that's so. There are parallels to this space, to the, to the crypto space that you know, I think AI is currently in and will be for some time, which is the infrastructure is not big enough to handle it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't have the regular modalities handling your power. So you've got to come up with new kinds of solutions, yeah, and work your and kind of weave your way through all the you know the patchwork of of, you know of laws and regulations and states and all of these things, to come up with solutions that are going to work for people. Right, Because AI is not going anywhere. Yeah, that's just, it's not a percent.
Speaker 1:Well, bitcoin's not going anywhere, AI is not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:I've been saying that for a long time, there are people thought that you know, including Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett, who've said you know, they didn't get it, they thought it was going to fail. And I, I, you know, I, I think they're just, they don't understand, they're patently wrong and I think this is it's not going anywhere. It's just going to eventually go up. Yeah, it's going to have its. It's going to have its hits, it's going to take its hits. You're going to have, like the winters where it drew, where the value falls out, but as this market continues to stabilize, I think it just continues to go up ultimately.
Speaker 1:It'd be fun if we could get Adam on the show for an interview. That'd be great. I'm going to.
Speaker 2:I'm going to shake the trees Really ask the question, tell him he can tell us how we're wrong, what we, what we don't know yeah, what we do know, that's right. And, uh, you know what he thinks about the world of AI and what they're doing and how they're doing it and how they're positioning themselves and capitalizing on what they already know and prognostications for the next couple of years.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned, guys. I'm pretty confident we can make that happen. So we'll wrap it up for now and hopefully we've done core scientific justice today. I hope so. I'm very impressed. It would be exciting to cultivate something there Again 100% in one year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty damn good Fantastic. Yeah, All's pretty pretty pretty damn good Fantastic. Yeah, All right, guys. Well, thanks, Thanks everyone for joining us and until next time on the Frontier Line.
