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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Company Spotlight- Torus
Peek into the world of energy management systems as Taurus introduces us to innovations that are enhancing the lives of homeowners and boosting grid stability across the U.S. From demand response programs to energy arbitrage, learn how Taurus helps consumers save money and alleviate grid stress. Explore the nuances of frequency regulation and how Taurus is solving residential solar system issues with its solutions. Their seamless integration with various renewable sources and commitment to American manufacturing highlight their dedication to quality and sustainability.
As we examine the broader implications of smart energy management systems, Taurus stands out as a beacon of potential in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and slashing electricity bills. Yet, challenges remain, particularly in public awareness and the initial costs of implementation. Drawing parallels with the early days of solar panels, we underscore the pivotal role of education in unlocking these systems' full potential. Join us in exploring the possibilities of industry collaboration to propel these advanced solutions forward and create a sustainable future.
Welcome back energy innovators and sustainability enthusiasts.
Speaker 2:You're listening to the Frontier Line, where we explore the cutting edge of energy, infrastructure and innovation. Hello Wayne, hey Dave, good morning. We've got an exciting one ahead of us. This is very exciting.
Speaker 1:Today we're going to dive deep into the company that's making waves in the renewable energy sector Taurus. Dave, I've got to say I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 2:You know, taurus's story is a perfect blend of entrepreneurial spirit, tech, innovation, sustainable practices all things that we talk about all the time. All themes I think our listeners are passionate about, so I'm very excited. All themes I think our listeners are passionate about, so I'm very excited.
Speaker 1:Before we dive in, let's remind our listeners about the current state of renewable energy in the US. According to the US Energy Information Administration, renewable energy sources accounted for 20% of total US electricity generation in 2021.
Speaker 2:Solar and wind are the fastest growing sources, but energy storage remains a critical challenge. That's right. That's right, wayne, and that's where companies like Taurus come in. They're tackling the energy storage problem head on, which is crucial for the widespread adoption of renewable energy.
Speaker 1:Why don't we start with their origin story? We've been covering, you know, company spotlights here in recent weeks and I love learning about how these guys got things started. It's not every day you hear about a company that grew out of a family tree farm, for sure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It might be the first, might be the only the only origin story or the story about that that I've that has ever involved a tree farm, especially in tech. So yeah, taurus was founded by a gentleman. His name is Nate Walkinshaw. Terrific, uh terrific person had an opportunity to speak with him. Speak, talk with Nate. He's great, uh, very, very, very, very smart and doing some great things. Um, uh, he was inspired by his experiences running a tree farm in Sandy, utah. Uh, pretty, pretty unique for an energy company to say, yeah, I started, I started with trees seriously.
Speaker 1:I mean, can you imagine the journey from nurturing trees to developing cutting edge energy storage solutions? It's fascinating how diverse experiences can lead to innovation, absolutely, and it speaks.
Speaker 2:The importance is and you and I talk about this a lot about cross-disciplinary thinking and solving complex problems like energy storage. You have to have a lot of people at the table.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, I mean, what's particularly interesting is how Nate Walking Shaw's love for old innovations intertwined with modern technology led to the creation of Taurus. I mean, he designed a battery based on kinetic energy of a flywheel, pairing this ancient concept with cutting edge tech.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. Phenomenal, yeah, you know. And the flywheel for anybody who doesn't. You know for anybody who has never heard. The term is actually an ancient technology dating back to the potter's wheel in ancient civilizations, but Taurus has re-imagined it for today.
Speaker 1:It's. It's honestly the perfect example of how looking to the past can sometimes inspire solutions for the future. Can you tell our listeners more about the technical aspects of flywheel energy storage, because I'm personally not too awful familiar about this and I know you had some conversations with Nate recently?
Speaker 2:I did and I had to read a bit more about this. I mean, I understood the concept but I'm like, okay, I need to put my head around it. So, essentially, a flywheel energy storage system works by accelerating a rotor to a very high speed and maintaining the energy in the system as rotational energy. Okay, so when energy is extracted from the system, the flywheel rotational speed is reduced as a consequence of the principle of conservation of energy. So adding energy to the system correspondingly results in an increase in the speed of the flywheel. So that's, that's. That's in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating. How does that actually compare to traditional battery storage?
Speaker 2:Well, like flywheels, have some distinct advantages they can respond to changes in demand very quickly, which is a huge issue, as we know right now on the current grid, and they have a long life cycle. They're not affected by temperature changes like some battery chemistries are. It's a big deal, it's a huge. I mean a huge deal, I mean, and that is an area that we're seeing in this space of new chemistries for batteries, like what is going to work better, what's longer lasting, what's going to be, you know, maybe less expensive to produce less toxic. So it's a big deal in the space, but no one's really, I mean not no one, you know. Obviously lithium ion is leading the pack, but there's a race right now to figure out batteries and better batteries. So yeah, and I think you know, so you see that. But so, on the flywheel side of things, though, they typically store less energy than chemical batteries for a given size. So that's kind of where they're different. You know, batteries store more, they store less, but they have some other advantages.
Speaker 2:So it's not really about replacing the traditional batteries, but complementing them. Yeah right, it's about having a diverse array of energy storage solutions to meet different needs, which you and I have talked about. It's different modalities, it's having all of the above solutions. It's like let's use the things that we have to serve the purposes, and there are lots of solutions for lots of circumstances.
Speaker 1:You know, that's exactly the kind of innovative thinking that we'd love to see, and it's not just about the technology. Taurus has a clear mission. They aim to enable communities and individuals to become their own renewable energy providers, which I think is really aligned with what we're doing with Not Like Footage Impact. It's really cool.
Speaker 2:It is. I think you would agree it is. It is, um, it's refreshing to talk to other people who have come to some of the same conclusions or, in the space saying, yes, we also see this quote from a completely different point of view of like this is how these problems uh, you know these, you know these things need to be solved. And so, you know, tourists they're not just building products, they're working, you know, they're towards a vision of decarbonizing homes. I think they're. The numbers they had are by 60, 80 percent within the first three years of installation. Wow, uh, very ambitious goal but, you know, based upon talking to them, a very doable goal that certainly is um ambitious.
Speaker 1:Let's break down for the listeners. What does decarbonizing a home by 60 to 80% actually mean in practice?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad you asked. Decarbonizing a home essentially means reducing its carbon footprint, that is, the amount of greenhouse gases, primarily carbon dioxide, released in the atmosphere as a result of a home's energy use. So you know, that's in a nutshell. That's what it is.
Speaker 1:So how does Taurus specifically aim to achieve that?
Speaker 2:Well, it's multifaceted, according to them. First, their energy storage solutions allow homeowners to store excess energy generated by solar panels or other renewable sources. This stored energy can then be used during peak hours or when renewable sources aren't generating, reducing reliance on the grid. And I should make a note, they're also you know this is they have home solutions, but they're also have industrial solutions.
Speaker 1:similarly, Okay, so that's good news for us. That's very good news. That makes sense. I imagine there's probably a smart energy management system that also plays a role, or is it just the? Is it just the battery?
Speaker 2:component. Yeah, they use that thing we talk about a lot. They use AI. Their system uses AI and predictive analytics to optimize energy storage use in the home. It can, for example, automatically run high energy appliances when renewable energy is abundant or shift energy intensive tasks to off-peak hours when grid electricity is cheaper and often cleaner.
Speaker 2:You know, I've got a as an aside. You know, one of my best friends lives in Hawaii and if we have listeners out there and you've lived in Hawaii or you know about Hawaii, it's kind of crazy how much they spend on energy. Yeah, like it's really significant. You know, out west unless you're in California but the other square states out here, our energy costs are fairly reasonable, but you go to Hawaii and it's not, and like at four or five o'clock in the afternoon when they hit their peak hours, I mean I think it quintuples their costs. So managing through those things is also a way to really mitigate costs and that's, you know, just to give you an example of how like probably you know like a, how Taurus could be used in an application or you know, in a homeowner to say, okay, now it's five o'clock in the afternoon and my rates, just you know, quintupled. You know I don't want to be able to. I don't want to be using grid power right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for example, yeah, so it's not just about generating and storing clean energy, but using it intelligently too. Okay, so, speaking of their products, let's dive deeper into what Taurus actually offers. They specialize in smart battery storage and energy management solutions. Their product portfolio is quite impressive, don't you think?
Speaker 2:Very impressive and and you know I, you know Nate shared with me some things that I think are upcoming, and I think they're going to continue to add and add products and and and different kinds of excuse to what they're doing. It's really impressive. They've got the virtual power plant ecosystem that links thousands of energy resources for grid management and then using AI and predictive analytics to enable customers to participate in demand response programs, energy arbitrage, frequency regulation initiatives, like I mentioned with Hawaii. And then they've got more things coming, even in the security space. So it's not only just powering but also securing, because that's a big deal security of these things. And if you have a computer system running your home, you also have a system that can be tapped or broken into, and so security for either home or in a business application is also one of those things that's really, really important to them.
Speaker 1:So you just dropped a handful of pretty complex terms. I wonder if you want to unpack some of these for the listeners with me. I mean let's, let's start with demand response programs. I mean let's start with demand response programs.
Speaker 2:That sounds good. They're initiatives where consumers can voluntarily reduce their electricity use during peak periods in exchange for incentives. Okay, I think some are familiar with that. We've seen it in different states and different utilities. So Taurus's system can automatically participate in these programs, saving homeowners money and reducing strain on the grid. So it's going to be again. It's going to be your smart system for actually participating. Are you going to have to really think about it and program it? No, their whole idea is like no, we want to take this, we want to make this as easy as possible, so that it operates in the background, maximizes efficiency, saves you as much money as you can and you're getting a product that is paying for itself.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about energy arbitrage?
Speaker 2:Yeah a new term for it Arbitrage. In the finance industry everybody talks about arbitrage. Yes, that's where banks make a lot of money and such. So energy arbitrage refers to the practice of buying electricity when it's cheap and selling it back to the grid when prices are high. Tourists' system can automatically charge their batteries when electricity prices are low and discharge them when prices are high, potentially earning money for the homeowner. So again, you know I'll go back to the Hawaii example If in the middle of the, you know during the day uh, that's when it's, you know they're, they're going to charge up and then they can, then they can off, put that when the demand increases, and that's that's how that works. And so you can. You can take advantage of a market situation. You know of a stock market situation. Very clever, yeah Right, you know, buy low, sell high.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, what can you tell us about frequency regulation?
Speaker 2:It's a bit more technical. So bear with me because you know, I don't know if I'm the most technical individual, but I'll try. I'm going to pretend to be one right now. Okay, so it involves making small adjustments to power output to maintain the grid's frequency at its standard level of 60 hertz. In the US, taurus's batteries can respond almost instantaneously to these needs, helping stabilize the grid.
Speaker 2:This is incredibly important to utilities. So we're going to you know if you don't know anything about this. This is one of those things where utilities get really squirrely about, because if you were a, let's say, you're a power, you're an independent power producer and you're producing a lot of power and you're trying to push it to the grid. If it's not on the right hertz or the frequency, it can cause huge disruptions. And so you know, if your utilities go well, wait a minute, I've got to service a population of a million people and if there's one customer or one one uh power source connected the grid that's going to disrupt it, then they could take down or it could cause problems across grid. So this is really critical, and so torus is.
Speaker 1:You know that this is what torus is is is solving with this frequency regulation it's interesting to be talking about this right now because in in researching some of the headlines that we're going to cover in another episode, maybe next week, I came across more than one article recently about how some of these residential solar panel systems are causing issues because the inverters are malfunctioning and it's causing frequency issues, like you were just explaining. So it sounds like with this Taurus situation, we can avoid that. It's amazing how much functionality they've packed into their system. Yeah, for sure. Let's not forget their unified customer experience. Taurus has created an all-encompassing energy management operation system that integrates with various renewable energy sources and even connects with smart home devices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as we were just just unpacking, I, I mean, and I will say, uh, you know, you're exactly right, it's comprehensive approach that sets source apart. Um, you know, and and and let me, let me, let me make the comparison in technology. Um, if you've used slack in the last 10 years, the last decade, yeah, one of slack's genius things was that Slack came out on the market and they said you know what, we're going to plug into everything. We're not going to be so independent of everybody. We're going to make these APIs and in the tech space you're about APIs we're going to make it so that anybody can plug into us and do anything. Anybody can plug into us and do anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's that kind of mentality of like, we, we are going to make sure this can plug into all these existing systems, right, and that that that is seamless, so we're not having to build out extra plugins. We want to say you know what, whatever you're using right now, we want to make sure we can work with it, and I love that approach. It's worked in the tech space incredibly well and I think the tech companies that have really done well and thrive, or were companies that understood that some say no, no, you got to come completely into our system. And some said you know what? We're going to take this agnostic approach, we're going to try and plug in everything, and I think those are the ones that kind of stand the test of time a little bit better, and I think I think TORS is on the right track there, you know. But also what? And I think this is close to both of our hearts, it's their, you know, it's their commitment. The other thing that they're really doing amazingly well is their attention to American manufacturing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love to hear that. I know that Taurus is proud to design, engineer and manufacture products right here in the US, specifically here in Utah. I'm aware that they recently opened this new 44,000 square foot headquarters and manufacturing facility in South Salt Lake. What's really interesting is we've been following how this new administration as Trump is coming in and we're experiencing all of this regime change on an energy and infrastructure basis, how much this impacts manufacturing, how much this impacts tariffs on other countries wanting to reshore manufacturing to the US, and a lot of this actually moving into Utah. So it's very exciting. I'd love to see that Taurus is one of these leaders in American manufacturing, absolutely, and know and so much so.
Speaker 2:You know we've seen this and, depending on where you are, where you're listening to this, you know governors end up coming to events. You know they'll come to. You know events here and there, but it's also impressive when they're able, when you get you know like. So you know when they had their event here. You know I read about a little bit when they had their event in Utah, when they kicked it off this facility. I mean they got governor Cox to the. Uh, you know they. They got the Salt Lake. You know South Lake mayor Um, I guess it. You know highlighting how important um Taurus is to the Utah community at large and then also to the country at large and the commitment to what that means. Uh, you know what that is, how, how the politicians are seeing a company like tourist play into this larger picture of solving bigger problems. You know again, politicians, they're gonna. They, you know they're gonna go with their.
Speaker 2:You're gonna try and pick the winner yeah stay with the winner and they I think they have they're like look these, this, this company's really doing some incredible things. Of course, we're going to come and support this and lend our support however we can, and that's what you saw, and that's it. You know it's.
Speaker 1:It's great to see it is great to see this level of support for clean energy innovation. Um, let's talk a little bit more about the importance of domestic manufacturing in the renewable energy sector.
Speaker 2:It's a small topic, yeah Well, yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 1:It's a huge conversation that, like just in the last few weeks, is having major movement.
Speaker 2:We've had conversations. Yeah, you know we, internal to Invictus, have had conversations about some interesting moves domestically that obviously we would like to participate in if we can, and it just it's an exclamation point and underscores this whole thing. So, you know, I mean domestic manufacturing, renewable energy technologies. I think, and I think a lot of people think is crucial for several reasons. First, you know it's going to reduce our dependence on foreign supply chains, which is a which is a big deal for all kinds of reasons. Uh, they can be vulnerable to disruptions. Uh, we obviously not. That this needs repeating.
Speaker 2:Saw this during COVID. Yeah, the entire world was disrupted and we see how, how reliant we are on very, very fragile things sometimes, and so if you can have backups in your supply chain, it really, it really serves you well, uh, and so that's you know, and I think you know you're seeing that. Second, you know it's going to create jobs and stimulates local economies. We're all about that. That's why that's been part of our modus operandi is we want? We want to create jobs, we want to stimulate economies, we want to help shore up local rural towns and communities that have seen their kids go to the bigger cities. We think there's an opportunity right now in America that's been our thesis that we can be a contributor into helping stand that infrastructure and put that infrastructure back in place. We're doing exactly this. And then the other thing I think it does on this domestic manufacturing is that it allows for tighter quality control and innovation cycles, and so you can just react faster, do things faster and, generally speaking, it's all good to see.
Speaker 1:Those are all excellent points. It's clear that Taurus is making an impact. I'm aware that they recently signed this deal with the Gardner Group to provide nearly 26 megawatt hours of energy storage. That's enough power almost a thousand homes for a full day.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is. It's impressive. It's impressive what they're doing. They're making inroads, you know, and it's not just about that scale, it's, you know, it's, it's also leveraging and, interestingly, rocky mountains. So this is where they're working Rocky mountain powers, watts, smart battery program and supporting grid resilience through the integration of energy storage resources into virtual power plant ecosystem. So VPP is going to be a thing We'll come back to it, but virtual power plant is a new term on the show.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think in 30, 30, several episodes, you know, I haven't I haven't used or heard the term VPP or virtual power plant. Can you explain to some of the listeners who are also not familiar with?
Speaker 2:that. That is yeah, because I had to figure this out. So a virtual power plant is a network of decentralized medium-scale power generating units, such as wind farms, solar parks and combined heat and power CHP units, as well as flexible power consumers and storage systems. These distributed units are connected and monitored by a central control system.
Speaker 1:So it's like creating a large power plant out of a bunch of smaller distributed energy resources.
Speaker 2:Yes, ders we've talked about DERs, right, and maybe one of the comparisons and again someone can correct me if I'm wrong this comparison might be woefully wrong but in Bitcoin mining or, you have all of these decentralized computers basically, uh, uh, being part of a larger whole, right and being managed. So the compute power is the combination of all of these decentralized um miners all in one, and so it can be considerably large, um, especially in, like bitcoin mining um that you have, I mean, you could have an amazing amount of compute power connected, and so I. That's what this is so take all of these sources and manage them through one centralized system, although bitcoin's decentralized. So, yeah, don't, don't beat me up on that. I get that trying to make a comparison like what might be happening today, that we all understand that.
Speaker 1:So Well, it's fascinating to think about because it really does show how the energy landscape is evolving from set, this traditional centralized power generation, to this distributed, or we've been referring to this as a decentralized, flexible energy model.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love to see that. It's fantastic. No, it's fantastic, and the beauty of like this, this VPP, is that it can react quickly to changes in demand, right, helping balance the grid and integrate more renewable energy sources, and that's that's kind of the whole thing. You know, we talked about the Hertz in order to balance that and make sure that no one source is muddying the electrical water, as it were. It's really important to do that, and so it's really good.
Speaker 1:So an interesting thing to dive into is lower emissions, reduced costs. We talk about that a lot, a lot on the frontier line. Could we dive into some of the context on the potential impact of widespread adoption of systems like Taurus's? When we're specifically speaking to reducing emissions, yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you know they. They are. They're sort of designed to reduce cost, lower emissions, protect commercial buildings from outages. It's the it's, it's a it's, it's this holistic approach, right? You and I have used the term all, all of the above, right? Yeah, the term holistic approach also applies, like to energy management. Like, let's look at all of it on a bigger scale, on how do we get this all to work together? Because ultimately, that might be a more efficient, a better way to do things, and that's and that's what they're doing. So, um, you know, and and I, I, you know they're, I think, uh, you know, to give you an idea of their potential impact, of the you know, on systems, uh, according to, to the EPA, residential commercial buildings account for about 13% of total US greenhouse gas emissions.
Speaker 2:So, according to the EPA, residential commercial buildings account for about 13% of total US greenhouse gas emissions. So, by enabling more efficient use of renewable energy and reducing reliance on fossil fuel power grids like system-like torres, this could significantly reduce these emissions. So that's, that's, that's where this makes a difference. Like that's, if you want to know where they're doing it, that's right there. That's that's. You can take a significant chunk of greenhouse gases and you can deal with them. That is a substantial potential impact.
Speaker 2:It seems like it's not also just about reducing emissions, is it? I mean, it seems axiomatic that it's a thing. Uh, you know, in some estimates you know that I've seen, and I think they, they, they cite these estimates uh, say that smart energy managed systems could reduce electricity bills by up to 30%. I've seen higher than that. Um, I've seen even higher. I've seen up to 50%, depending upon where you are in in in the country. Uh, how much your power normally is, and again, I you know earlier on we talked about Hawaii much your power normally is. And again, I you know, earlier on we talked about Hawaii Hawaii is a, is a is a place where it's it's widely different, and so if you can solve it there, that might even have a bigger impact on your on your bill.
Speaker 1:So, that's really impressive. Uh, it's clear that Taurus is operating at the intersection of environmental sustainability and economic efficiency, as we think about. You know, wrapping up the episode here. I'm not quite ready to wrap up, but I want to consider what are the biggest challenges facing companies like Taurus. We understand our own challenges, you know, developing these big impact parks. Uh, this seems like it has some unique advantages of being a global product. It's, it's more of a product than a project, uh, and therefore it could be applied anywhere. Really, is that the way you see it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I, yes, I do, uh, you know, I. I think that comes back to one of the biggest challenges and it's something that we've run up against a little bit already. It comes back to education, you know, and and awareness. You know, many people aren't aware of the possibilities offered by these advanced energy management systems. We just kind of go about our days right, um, that we, we don't know about things until we finally start using them or becomes easy, and I'm talking about on a consumer level. So we look around our house and we didn't know the advantages, maybe, of having, um, smart things in our homes until we had them and we started going, oh well, yeah. And then once you see them, you're like, oh well, it's obvious.
Speaker 2:So, you know, we've had a lot of people have currently, I mean, I think we can all admit we probably have we, we, we saw with, uh, uh, thermostats, you know, smart thermostats Absolutely Uh, we're one of those products out in the last decade that really made a big impact and people started to see it almost immediately in their bills that it learned routines in the house and it adjusted accordingly. Yeah, and people go, oh, yeah, I get this, this, this makes sense, this is, you know, okay, this is a couple hundred dollar item, uh, but it, over the course of the last two years, it saved me maybe a thousand bucks, yeah, um, because it's smartly managing and it's actually more comfortable. I don't have to think about it, I don't have to run the thermostat every time I'm cold. That's, that's what we're talking about with, with education, and I think that's not only a, it's not only um an issue for the, the, the end consumer, but it's also education for, um, industries, for, uh, politicians, for anybody in a decision-making capacity of like, how this could actually work.
Speaker 1:How about startup costs? It seems like, if you're bringing on some new system as a residential homeowner or business owner, new challenge with upfront initial costs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think, yes, I mean there's always going to be an initial cost but in the long run, you know, in the long run, they're going to pay for themselves, like solar panels. Yeah, I mean I think they. I think, yes, I mean there's always going to be an initial cost but in the long run, you know, in the long run, these are good, they're going to pay for themselves, like solar panels. Yeah, solar panels are great. I mean, how often do we talk about solar panels? Yeah, we know it's got a pencil. Yeah, actual costs with some incentives you have to make it work.
Speaker 2:Most people will say, okay, there are some people out there saying I don't care, as long as it's, you know, I'm not getting killed on it. I'm happy to do it because I want to be more solar. Or the more market-based the consumer saying, yeah, I don't want to waste money, yeah, I want to save money. And so, as solar panels have come down in cost or incentives gone up, we've seen more people gravitate towards that model and say, yeah, sure, I'll do it Because ultimately, over 10 years, 15 years, whatever period that is, I'm saving money. And there are plenty of people out there you talk to going. Oh yeah, I sell back to the grid. I make this money. My costs have been. I love it. It's all a factor of how big your roof profile is and all those things, but we know that now and we're seeing this, and so upfront costs. There are definitely some upfront costs, I mean, but they're, you know, long-term benefit and long-term savings.
Speaker 1:Well, and you bring up, I think, a parallel which is opportunities. You mentioned the solar panels. Having that on a home, being able to sell power back to the grid, that's an opportunity for a homeowner or business owner. Speaking of opportunities, where do you see the most potential for growth in this sector?
Speaker 2:The grid services. As our electricity grids become more complex and incorporate more renewable energy it's this kind of flexibility offered by systems like Taurus's They'll become increasingly valuable. You know there's also a huge potential in commercial and industrial sectors, where energy costs are a significant expense. You talk to any major company, you talk to Amazon, you talk to Walmart, who's running these big warehouses. They spend a lot of money, a lot more than you would ever even think of money, a lot more than you would ever even think, that will go into uh, you know, into the into electrifying these, these giant buildings, and cooling them in many cases so well.
Speaker 1:I I I do see that it's clear that Taurus, as a company, our listeners ought to keep an eye on. I'm certainly excited to work with Nate and the team at Taurus, see how we can implement that as businesses and within our projects. They're definitely pushing the boundaries in renewable energy storage and management, which checks a lot of boxes for us. You know, attracting innovators into our orbit. You know we at Valley Forge Impact Parks we're doing our best to be a beacon or an example for, you know, businesses to be cleaner, more cost effective, more sustainable, but also really innovative in all of these areas, right.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's what?
Speaker 2:you know I'm happy that they're in our orbit, I'm happy to be in their orbit, that they're in our orbit, I'm happy to be in their orbit, I mean, and that we get to talk about how best to solve some of these major challenges that we all see and that we're trying to solve, and we're trying to play our role in helping solve.
Speaker 2:What we see are some challenges. I mean, it's refreshing, honestly, to talk to people who you know, like Nate, who has had such an interesting, you know varied career, you know starting out from, you know family tree farm, um, to see him move, but also to see, to talk to somebody who is is truly just a, you know, as a genius, innovator, and understand like, look, I'm doing this for all kinds of reasons. I'm doing this to build a successful business, but I'm doing this to solve some major problems. We can do this better, we can do it less expensively, we can have less impact on the environment, and there's a business case for it. It's not, oh, it's just more expensive. No, this is more efficient. This is actually going to be less expensive and less impactful in the long run If we do these things. And it's it's refreshing to talk to people like that and be be in those conversations and to hear from them and to hear how they see, uh, you know the future, the next, you know the next decade or two going.
Speaker 1:I agree, dave. I you know I say this often on the show, but I love hearing these stories of entrepreneurs winning. I love to hear the origin story. I love to hear about the struggle. We've talked about our own struggles as entrepreneurs. It would be really fun to get Nate on the show. You think we could convince him to come do an interview at some point? I hope I.
Speaker 2:I hope so, cause, uh, I would love for our listeners to get an opportunity to hear it from you know, as a word of the horse's mouth, and hear from him, hear who he is. He's, he's brilliant, he's fascinating, um, he's energetic, um, and he just he's, he's the, he's that person you, you're, you're excited to, to be associated with because he is going, he's kind of creating this giant space. You know, despite what everything says, he's like no, we can, we can do this. And he's seeing opportunity where people just haven't seen it before. He's like we'll solve. No, no, we're not going to solve one thing, we're going to solve all of it, we're going to solve this whole section. And people say, wait a minute, you can't solve all of it. And he's like, oh yeah, watch me, I'm going to solve all of it and I'm going to do well.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, I think it was last year and I forget the name specifically of one of their storage devices. I think it's the industrial one. It won Time's Product of the Year. Wow, I mean, these guys are, they're making waves in the technology industry. I mean they are, you know, they're getting noticed. It's not just you know, people who you know, like you know, have podcasts and like to talk about energy.
Speaker 1:Right that are noticing.
Speaker 2:Right, these are, you know, significant groups and technologists are noticing what they're doing and what they've solved and already what they have on the market. And so, yeah, getting Nate on here to talk and tell us about what he thinks is coming and what they're doing and, you know, deep dive on what they're working on and really go into detail over some of the specifics of what they have, I mean, I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, it's been fun to take the deep dive on Taurus today as a company spotlight, really looking forward to getting Nate on the show if we can, if we're fortunate enough to do that. Also really looking forward to working with Taurus on Valley Forge Impact Park to see Absolutely, you know, when we talk about smart grids and we talk about power management and AI, these are all things that seems like there's a lot of synch, of uh synchronicity there for us.
Speaker 2:Huge synchronicity for us. Huge synchronicity for us, I mean, and I mean, you know we want to, we want to work, which is why we're talking about them, because they they are. They are one of those groups solving what we've found to be one of those challenges, a big challenge in this space. As you go and try and solve these things. It's a necessary solve. Yeah, they they really have said okay, this is how you, you're gonna have to have this kind of solve in in this kind of way, and they're doing great things.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I agree. Well, I'm excited to learn more, me too uh, we'll do some arm. We'll do some arm twisting yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll let you do the arm twisting, you know, nate, so that'd be great, all right. Well, let's wrap it up. Hopefully, hopefully, you guys enjoyed what we're putting down today on Taurus and looking forward to episode Frontier Line. You know, let us know, let us know how we're doing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, you know we're we. That's. Our goal is to explore all of these things. We want the feedback and let us know how it's going and show us some love.
