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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Company Spotlight- Gensler Architects
What if architecture could redefine the future of urban living? Join us as we embark on a captivating journey through the world of Gensler, the architectural powerhouse behind some of the most iconic projects on the planet. From the dazzling City Center in Las Vegas to the majestic Shanghai Tower, Gensler's work stands as a testament to visionary design and sustainability. Our admiration for their achievements intertwines with our own experiences in architecture, as we delve into Gensler's innovative approach to urban development and sustainability, exploring how they've managed to leave a transformative imprint on cities worldwide.
The conversation takes an intriguing turn as we spotlight Gensler's pioneering leadership in green architecture. Uncover the firm's groundbreaking initiatives, such as their collaboration with the International Finance Corporation, and their pursuit of reducing high-carbon materials in building projects. We'll discuss how Gensler's strategic partnerships with forward-thinking clients have pushed the boundaries of design, positioning them as a global authority in sustainable architecture. With their remarkable projects spread across 100 countries, including the Dubai International Finance Center, Gensler's global influence is undeniably expansive.
We close with a look at the ambitious future of urban design through Saudi Arabia's The Line, a visionary giga project that could rival the marvels of ancient civilizations. Led by Gensler's London office, this linear city promises to house 9 million residents in a zero-carbon environment, all within a structure as awe-inspiring as science fiction. As construction unfolds, we reflect on the challenges and promises of such a monumental endeavor, pondering how it might reshape the narrative of urban living by 2045. Whether you're an architecture aficionado or simply curious about the future of cities, this episode offers a thrilling peek into the limitless possibilities of design.
Welcome back, guys, Excited for today's episode. How are you, Dave? I'm doing great.
Speaker 2:Wayne Very excited for today's episode. This is going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, this is where we get to geek out, even more so than we already do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, dave, and I have been thinking here the last couple of months wouldn't it be cool if we kicked off kind of a mini series or micro series within the show for the listeners? That would be a air quotes, company spotlight series and and the whole idea for you guys is that, you know, we, we dedicate an episode to spotlighting companies we love and we'll. We've made the whole list. We've made a list and it makes sense for us to start with companies we love. And we've made the whole list. We've made a list and it makes sense for us to start with companies we're already working with that we love, and I see it expanding into us covering some of the big, exciting innovators that we hope to work with. And so we're going to be kicking this off today.
Speaker 1:You guys with a company spotlight on Gensler, one of our favorite companies in the world. I'm going to let Dave give the breakdown for you guys. But, guys, this is the largest architecture firm on earth, ranked by revenue and the number of architects. So, dave, will you give the listeners the details on Gensler and we'll dive in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. It's the 10,000 foot view of overview of who these guys are. So Gensler was founded in 1965 by Art Gensler, drew Gensler and James Follett. It's, as you just said, it's leading global architecture and design firm, known for its innovative approach to urban development and real estate, has over 6,000 professionals and more than 50 offices worldwide. Gensler has been involved in high-profile projects such as the Shanghai Tower and City Center in Las Vegas. The firm emphasizes sustainability, aiming for a net zero carbon portfolio by 2030. Gensler's commitment to diversity and inclusion is reflected in its workforce and community engagement initiatives.
Speaker 2:Recognized as the world's largest architecture firm, it continues to influence the industry with its pioneering designs. You know, before we started, I said you know, I don't know. I would hope the Internet is great and I hope people, you know they're taking some of the things that in what's going on in design in the world We've probably all seen in the Dubai and some of the things going on there. This is the firm building the next world of wonders period. End of story. Yeah, I mean, that's how I see them.
Speaker 2:These, you know, if, if, if there was a there, there were designers on on the pyramids. Well, did this? This? It was, it was. You know, gensler is our modern version of that. Yeah, they have been involved in massive projects already, some of the most amazing, amazing projects, and and truly I mean the sky's the limit, and you know to be cliche about it and probably designing into the sky. They are just doing so, and so we couldn't be more excited that we get the chance to work with them. Thank you, thank you, jeff. Yes, yes, I'll kick that over to you and let you kind of go from there.
Speaker 1:Well, you touched on large projects and, from an architectural perspective, this is so exciting for me. This is like for me to geek out on architecture.
Speaker 2:Because Wayne studied architecture and I don't think I've shared with him that I actually was thinking about architecture, kind of like.
Speaker 1:so I get it, I get his, I get your excitement about this I mean, guys, this goes back to me being a freshman in high school paper drafting, okay, and I still have the big you architectural sheets of paper on so do I of designing these houses.
Speaker 2:You know that shit as a front took all four years.
Speaker 1:That was my. My favorite class was architecture and then I went into the U of U uh in the AutoCAD program, did five years of that. So so I I really geek out and being a land developer, architecture is close to my heart because we get to control environments, interior design, we get to make beautiful things, and so to have an opportunity to work with Gensler and the team that we've got has maybe more industry experience in data centers, specifically, critical infrastructure facilities, military facility, high clearance facilities than I think anybody out there, and that's been really inspiring. I want to touch on a couple of these mega projects that Gensler is world-renowned for. You touched on City Center in Las Vegas. But, guys, this is a 67 acre, 18 million square feet city within a city. Yes, that is the city center in las vegas.
Speaker 2:if you haven't been there go yeah, for all kinds of reasons, go to vegas because it's a lot of fun, but, right, it's, it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's mind-blowing, it really is. Yeah, the conception of it I. It took forever to come into with everything else down there, but it finally launched. I have been in awe, you know, as of late when I've gone down there, because there have been so many cool projects that have come online in the last decade or five, even five years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway so, yes, another big one was the Shanghai Tower. They did that in 2013. Big one was the Shanghai Tower. They did that in 2013. 2,073 foot tower became the largest, the tallest building in China, yes, okay. So second in the world, second tallest in the world. That was in 2013. So you know, we got things in Dubai that are eclipsing that and we're going to save the world's first giga project.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about that as our final thoughts of the show. It's like dessert, yeah, so that's the dessert we're serving. We're serving up the the the seven course meal here for you guys. So let's talk about some of their research capabilities.
Speaker 1:When you think of an architecture firm, you imagine a bunch of guys on their computers and they're drawing buildings and they're making plans, and there is that core competency of architecture as we know it Now with AI, that's getting very exciting because that tool in the design space is just on the conflict resolution process of designing a building. Conflict resolution within design guys is taking a floor plan and a building plan and then making sure that all the electrical wires run without intersecting with the plumbing and all the things that have to fit in the wall. That's all conflict resolution. That's been a very challenging element of architecture and a lot of times, historically, what happens is before AI. You have architects that will design something, you have a construction plan set, the building department approves it and your contractor's building it and they're like, oh shit, this doesn't work this whole thing doesn't fit in this wall.
Speaker 2:I've actually heard contractors say certain things about architects, like totally they need to get out here and swing a hammer, because then they they finally see like yeah, that works great on paper but it doesn't work in the real world.
Speaker 1:They can't do that, yeah, so so there's been a historical disconnect of architects who are pretty creative yep, versus the less imaginative. But who-? Maybe more practical, pragmatic, practical, yeah, and maybe it's not or realistic, maybe. To what, bob-? Yes, to be able to execute the construction, and unimaginative is not a fair term, because contractors and builders are very imaginative. They are, but there's the disconnect from the plan to swinging the hammer and standing up the walls and doing the thing, and so what AI represents for architecture has been able to sync that all up. So when we produce a plan set, it's executable. And you talk about very sophisticated plan Shanghai Tower and the city Okay, these mega projects. So high, high level of collaboration.
Speaker 1:But if we talk about just the research element, for a second of what Gensler has done, they have launched several formal establishments, including the Gensler Research Program 2007. We're talking about surveys, workplace surveys that span all seven continents. We're talking about the Gensler Research Institute. Many people may have even heard of that. That's kind of a household name. But the Gensler Research Institute in 2017, so we're already a little dated here, based on Wikipedia but they've been at this over 20 years and it has a publication that goes with it, the Gensler's Research Catalog. What they're focusing on is industry reports in education, healthcare, residential, retail and hospitality sectors sectors they're constantly doing surveys to improve quality of life, quality of design, workforce efficiency and a whole list of other things. So, as a research company, there's this entire research division of Gensler that is kind of the forefront that leads into what its design elements then program within their designs.
Speaker 2:And to kind of go with that. I'll give you an example of something that I came across and I was like wow, that's really intriguing, where they and they're using, they're using algae to capture carbon from data centers. I mean, so they're, they are really jumping into the cutting edge of what is possible. And then how do we, how do we leverage everything we know into the design, everything we know into the design? How do we take something that could work and then integrate it into design, to where we now start solving problems and checking out problems and creating solutions out of just doing better designs? And so I mean they one of the things that so they were doing. You know, obviously algae requires heat, light, nutrient medium to thrive, making it suitable for environments. So Gensler's research suggested that algae panels could be installed on data center exteriors to capture significant amounts of carbon. This process would not only aid in carbon capture, but also integrate with sustainable industrial ecosystems. This is just to your point. This is one of those very specific things that have come out of their research into how do we solve these things. So it's not I'm almost kidding they're not waiting for other private sector companies to say, okay, we'll solve this. They're saying okay, how can we do this better? How can we do this better? Okay, here's basic design principle, here's what we're trying to do. How do we solve these problems in a more proficient way, in a more efficient way? And I love that about them On their you know, just on their sustainability initiative, on data centers, I mean, they're you know, they've got four kind of pillars.
Speaker 2:That they're you know they got regenerative design. They, you know they're emphasizing how to use regenerative design principles to, you know, enhance the biodiversity, renewable energy, waste heat utilization, sustainable materials. They are trying to solve all of that and we recognize how important each of those is in the ultimate goal of like, if you can use more sustainable materials, well then that solves lots of different. It could solve supply chain issues, it could, you know, increase, you can solve just that, can solve all all kinds of things for, say, a developer or a builder of a data center.
Speaker 2:Waste heat is a big topic right now and there are a ton of companies trying to effectively solve that for data centers, because they kick off a lot of heat. We know this, and so how do you use it? This is why you've probably, if you've, you know, follow this industry at all. You know that there have been projects in. Basically, they want to put data centers in the coldest spots on earth. Why can I kick off so much heat? Yeah, um, there's even a project I'd read about in, like I wasn't island there. Or there's china I thought it was a china, china, chinese project where they want to locate a data center I, I think we talked about it in the ocean, yeah, like in a bay, yeah, to keep it cold. So there are lots of groups, lots of entities trying to solve this.
Speaker 2:And so, again, you take a Gensler who is truly at the tip of the spear, is the tip of the spear saying here's what we know through all of our years of experience and all of our expertise how do we make it better? How do we improve this? So, renewable energy being the same thing, how do we design, how do we design data centers that are that that check all the boxes for for our clients? And, of course, regenerative design can lead all kinds of things, oh, yeah, and what's going to happen with that? So I love what they're doing in that space and that's just specifically on data centers. That gives you an example of how they are just trying to tackle all of these problems in each of these verticals.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, dave. And just to bolt on to what you're saying here about Gensler being an authority in the space, I'd go as far as to say they are the authority in the space. And when I'm saying and I don't say that lightly when you say authority in the space, that means all other architecture firms on earth look to Gensler's research, to their standards, to their design. They're setting a precedence globally for how things get done. And just to underscore that for our listeners, a couple examples here. You guys can go read the whole thing on the internet. They're very well published. But just a few things here. Gensler is launching their new green specifications that focus on reducing high-carbon materials. That focus on reducing high-carbon materials. Their Impact Through Design report, launched in 2016, explores strategies for architecture and design to play a greater role in global climate change strategy and mitigation. Okay, the Impact by Design reports have been published every year since 2016. In 2023, gensler announced the launch of the Gensler Product Sustainability Standards. Okay, and starting in January 2024, the standards will be required for all Gensler projects in the US, canada and Europe. At the COP28, gensler partnered with the International Finance Corporation, ifc, to jointly expand low-carbon building certification and access to green finance. That's how much they're moving the needle.
Speaker 1:On sustainable building We've touched on I love the example of algae that you brought up, dave. That's one of the most innovative things I've ever heard. We've talked about reducing carbon emissions. That's a big thing for anyone in the energy space, anyone in the construction space. We've talked about operational carbon reduction. What are the systems within a facility that we could use or implement that could reduce the emissions of that facility? We've also talked um carbon embodiment of a building. Uh, a couple months ago, you know, we talked about the natural, using natural pozzolans and concrete instead of clinker and improving the quality of the concrete. But but reducing the carbon embodiment by up to 80 percent, right when we're talking about this is.
Speaker 1:This is what makes a company an authority in the space, when you have so much foresight that you're contemplating the mining, the procurement, the transportation, the construction and then the operations of a facility. Yeah, that's how you calculate total carbon embodiment, all of the factors Most people like at first glance aren't going to put two and two together. The transportation of concrete big concrete trucks using diesel engines to get it from the plant to the site calculates into that emissions, that carbon embodiment calculation of a building, calculation of a building. And so Gensler, maybe more than anyone else, understands it and is making these major global initiatives that set a precedence for every other architecture firm in the world to look up to, and then now starting to require some of this stuff. When you get the financial markets to embrace these standards, what that means is global adoption. It means that Gensler is authoring standards that are being mandated by the financial sectors. That's a huge deal. It's hard to underscore how valuable and important their fingerprint on construction in general is. They're pioneers.
Speaker 2:And in a weird sort of way you wouldn't think pioneers is the giant company, but I think they've embodied that. From what I know about them, they embody that culture and they enable that culture within to push the envelope. So to never stop innovating, to never stop pushing and, as a result, they are pioneering. They're pioneering these things and they're moving the world of architecture what's possible and I'm not saying I'm sure there are other companies out there as well doing, you know, equally innovative things, but they just represent so many of the big projects and the and, and, and and here's the other side of this because they're working with groups that are well financed and are willing to spend money on design or willing to say, yeah, I, okay, we, we can do this, we can do this really efficiently, or we can do it really well and we can do some of these things that are going to have other follow-on benefits, but it's going to cost more.
Speaker 2:A lot of the groups that they're engaged with are on that latter part of like. I get it. Let's do the more, because the design is going to push different kinds of things and is going to set up. It's going to set a precedent. It's also going to drive long-term, long-tail value in ways that maybe wouldn't in a different way, and you just see their willingness they do that, but they're also working with a lot of groups that are willing to really push the envelope, and that's a great marriage really push the envelope and yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:That's a great marriage, yeah they guys, gensler has a list, an exhaustive list of awards. Yeah, that go back to, you know, the early years, the first decade in business. But but to just touch on a few of these, gensler received the number one rank overall in building designs 2021 world architectural 100 rankings. Um, fast company has ranked gensler among the 100 best workplaces for innovators. Okay. Um, engineering news record ranked gensler is the number one top green design firm for the last six years consecutively. Okay, for the 42nd consecutive year in a row here, gensler has received the highest ranking on interior design magazines top 100 giants. And it goes on and on, and on and on. And so you know, moving into some of these notable projects, we touched on city center. We touched on, you know, shanghai Tower.
Speaker 1:There's a global footprint of what Gensler has done. I might not be aware they have done. They have done the most relevant projects in 100 countries and many of these, if you know, for the listeners, if you guys are paying attention to what's happening in UAE, you know the gate, dubai International Finance Center 2004 in Dubai. I mean, dave and I are junkies for watching Dubai and what's happening in Dubai. I mean, you's one of those spots that everyone wants to go visit.
Speaker 1:But what's happening financially in Dubai is remarkable. What's happening from a development standards perspective is remarkable, and Gensler seems to be the authority over there. I mean, they've done projects in Kuwait City. They've done multiple in Kuwait actually that stand out on this top list New York City, obviously, london, everywhere you can imagine, south Korea, and we're talking about major international airports. We're talking about the largest data centers on planet Earth. We're talking about the headquarters of some of the largest companies on earth coca-cola company headquarters, exxon mobile company headquarters, um nvidia, nvidia headquarters, that's probably the most relevant to the whole show what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal design project. You should go google that. Have you seen what that nvidia facility looks like? I mean, it's like a spaceship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. I thought the Apple thing was an interesting, but, yeah, the NVIDIA, it's amazing, it really is. They're also here a little bit closer to home. They master planned the Arizona Coyotes Arena and Entertainment District. Okay, actually, now that I'm saying that out loud, I'm wondering if they are being considered to do the entertainment district here in utah, which has been a topic of local conversation so interesting.
Speaker 2:Uh, they did the ideal tower in allentown, pennsylvania. Uh, they have done. They did san jose's purple or people deck, transforming parking garage rooftop into vibrant urban destination. So they've done massive. And then these very iconic smaller projects yeah, um, they've got, you've got the cccc riverside plaza poised to become a landmark work. Uh, learn play destination along the yangpu waterfront in shanghai, shanghai. Um, they did the boulevard walk of fame streetscape in hollywood.
Speaker 2:So you know, you've probably seen, uh, some of their stuff. They, they. This is the I, this is the one that I, I, I hadn't seen. Where they did the london cancer hub? Uh, europe's largest science campus designed by gensler, wow, so you go from very consumer community kind of thing to now, now tacking towards we've got to develop a, a cancer hub where we bring all of these researchers and all the acupy, all the academics together in one facility, and then I'm. I would imagine that's an entirely different kind of challenge of how you do labs and all kinds of but then how do you make that work in the most official way possible? Right again, they're tackling, you name it, they're tackling it or they've tackled it, which is why that's a great point.
Speaker 1:I think health care hospitals, critical, critical facilities in the healthcare sector are probably the most advanced type of structures from a design perspective, maybe with the exception of critical facilities like military control centers and some of these military data centers. But from a design complexity perspective, massive, extremely complex, with life and death implications on design right.
Speaker 2:That's a big deal and and hospitals are one of those things and you will, you know, have family in the hospital, in that space and, um, understanding how a facility is designed and how it flows and how patient flow works is absolutely you wouldn't think about it, but it's, it's, it's giant and you just think you just have a big square building and put a bunch of stuff. It needs to be more than that. It can be. You can do it a lot better. And so, yeah, that, uh, that they're doing those kinds of projects as well, or doing the healthcare or they're doing science, is great. They're doing another one I saw in California AltaSea net positive innovation campus focused on urban marine environments. Wow, that's cool. They're playing a crucial redevelopment role in the Lincoln Yards in Chicago. I mean again, it's just they did. In zurich, cadillac launched its all ev range with an experience center designed by gonzalez I bet that's a pretty high tech I yeah pretty, pretty high level experience in zurich.
Speaker 1:Yeah, switzerland, yep, the cadillac experience, cadillac experience in zurich.
Speaker 2:I got what I I didn't even know that was a thing Right, they did the redesigning of the historic Egyptian theater in Hollywood, wow. So you kind of get a sense of they're doing everything they did, I mean, and closer to here out west, I mean they did not that California's not close, but like close to next to Utah. They did the steamboat-based village redevelopment in Colorado World but like close to next to Utah. They did the steamboat based village redevelopment, colorado, um, world-class resort experience, aligning with modern traveler expectations. Wow, something you know very well about, um, you know about what it, what it means to design for, uh, for somebody you know, for somebody who's traveling, who wants to come and stay in and stay at a resort. What I'll ask you I'll just stop so in your experience, when you were designing a destination spot, what, what, what did you find valuable in that Like, like, what, why did like having them and having an architect that understood your vision or would be willing to go there? What did that mean for you?
Speaker 1:That's a fun question because I ended up having to fire the first architect that I brought on originally because he didn't have any understanding of what I was trying to do and any experience in net zero facilities or even hospitality or any of the things. He came from a residential background and just didn't have the experience and he had been doing architecture for 40 years Ended up having to fire him and bring on another firm. They were more aligned, they had some hotel experience, but still pretty darn limited. They did a great job, unlimited. They did a great job. But I think if I didn't have an, if I didn't have all the architectural depth personally to to convey what I was trying to accomplish, I think I probably wouldn't have ended up with as cool of a result. I, you know they, they were very good at implementing what I, what I, you know and I, but I spent way more time with them than I think the average owner you know, owner of a project spends with their architect.
Speaker 2:I think it was close to your heart, you had a passion for it. You understood it intimately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I was involved with every single stitch of interior design, building design, sourcing, procurement of stone from a certain quarry. Okay, I mean, that's how, that's how, that's how evolved I was, every stitch of those buildings at Sage Creek and Moab and it turned out beautiful. But it would have been great if I could have had a company like Gensler who could have leveled that up, cause I there are many levels a greater than it could be. You know it's still pretty basic. It's beautiful but it's still pretty basic. So from a from a sophistication advancement perspective, it you know it would have been fun to work with them on that.
Speaker 1:Now I have recently had other experiences and I'm not going to say who or where this happened, but recently had an opportunity to go stay at a new resort and it's a billion-dollar project and the press around this has been huge. It's been really piped up to be like this beacon of resort development and I went and stayed there and it was still under construction. I didn't know it was under construction. I got an invitation to go stay there from a friend and check it out because they know some of my background in the hospitality sector. They thought I would think it was interesting, wanted to get my opinion. I've been dying to. This is a lot of years in the making to get this project online. I go and stay. It's under construction. I checked out. I booked for three days and checked out the next day.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I couldn't believe it was so irritating how bulldozers and loaders like literally tearing up the portico at the front entrance of this place and construction workers pouring concrete outside of this condo that I was in, I was like so I couldn't be there. I did not want to be in this dirty construction environment. That's not what I signed up for. I'd like I'll come back in a year when you're done this is done. I'll come back in a year when this is done. So an example, dave, of irresponsible development putting money first and it's probably their finance guys saying, hey, we need to get bookings. That's retarded because what's going to happen is focus on your bookings while you're under construction. Everyone flying in from out of state goes and stays there has the same experience I had. They complain you get a thousand Google reviews failing, failing. You don't recover from that.
Speaker 2:You don't get out of the yeah.
Speaker 1:So the responsible thing is build all your amenities first, like we did in Moab. Let everyone see the quality that you're producing so that when they do come stay, they know what's going to be in that building is going to be on par with what those amenities look like, and that worked for us, and so you know it could go both ways. A lot has to do with the developer, how we program, how we sequence construction, and design's just a big part of it. I wanted to. I'm just scrolling through this list of these awards and I've got to bring up two more because they're just incredible. The Center for Active Design awarded Gensler as the company with the most ambassadors of all time. As the company with the most Fitwell accredited staff in 2023. Best in building health awards Wow, so the most ambassadors of all time talking about an authority in the space. The next one here for the ninth consecutive year, gensler received the number one rank overall in building designs 2024 world architecture. Under rankings I. There's. There's no ranking body out there that doesn't recognize how wonderful gensler is.
Speaker 2:they really embody the standard of modern architecture and which underscores why we are very excited, absolutely opportunity, yeah, to do something, to do some amazing things with them yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, I think you and I share this fascination with the wonders of the world. Yes, and, and I'll I gotta tell you guys I have such an obsession with egypt and the pyramids from an architectural perspective and a site survey. I mean yes to to survey those, build those pyramids in alignment with the sun and the moon and the stars and certain constellations, and have sun go through certain channels within the buildings right and then match certain things on earth that couldn't it.
Speaker 2:It's the math. Is the math? The ability of what they could pull off then, yeah, is almost inconceivable. Yes, yeah, it is, but they didn't have any of the modern amenities that we do and I think you give. Most people couldn't do it. Now, yeah, um, and they pulled off the incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's right, and so you, everyone has seen the History Channel and knows something about pyramids, and you know the pyramids in Giza and Egypt and you know the conspiracy theories around aliens. Oh yeah, and I'm open to a lot of things and you know, maybe that's a thing. But trying to just understand the engineering perspective of moving the big stones and stacking them up like that, with, with, with our understanding, manpower, man men only and not not machinery, and, and you know, specialized, yeah, yeah, no giant cranes, as far as we know.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, no, no, modern cranes, no, you know yeah, so, so I love that, and you know I've been to the great wall of china too, another another incredible feat, feat. And so to experience the, the, the wonders of the world, and the, the list of wonders of the world's evolving it is. But, but I'm so excited to see a few headlines recently, um, and, and I know you're just as excited about this as I am, but but, uh, I'm just gonna share one of the headlines here. So this one was published just on november 11th, so just here this week. Gensler's london office leading on design for the lines, first phase, okay, and the photo, I mean the rendering on this is like, it's like a, it's our colony, yeah, seriously something out of out of science fiction so if you guys don't know about saudi arabia's controversial giga project, this is a.
Speaker 1:This is a multi-trillion dollar project. That that is a 170 kilometer long linear city, known as the line, in an area of Saudi Arabia known as Neo Google it. It is the most mind-blowing architectural design engineering feat I could ever imagine, and they're pulling it off over there in Neo. They've already been building the infrastructure and laying concrete and this thing's happening, but, knowing that Gensler is the architect that the Saudi crown princes have enrolled, have hired on as the only firm to be able to handle this level of something that's never been done before architecture.
Speaker 2:Oh, and it's. I mean to underscore the 170 kilometers, okay. So for those 110 miles long, the original design's 500 meters. Tall, okay, wow, that's 1,600 feet. Tall, okay, that's 1600 feet.
Speaker 1:Wow, 110 miles long, 1600 feet tall and a width of 200 meters, so 660 feet wide on earth no, it's got to be more than that.
Speaker 2:It's 660 feet. No, uh, width, oh yeah, height, width, and then, and then that long accommodating, wow, what they expect would be a population of 9 million people. So this is 25 of saudi arabia's 2022 population. Oh my gosh. So, and the line would have, I mean and this is where it's been have an entirely glass mirror exterior so that it wouldn't, I guess, impact the, you know, at least the, the kind of playing with that. You know that, uh, the environment, and so you, you would basically see, you know, see it. You wouldn't really see it and you'd see it almost a mirage, if you will, in the desert. Um, it's just, I mean, it's just stunning. So they, you know, uh, saudi Arabia and the state of the, they, they hope to complete the first three and a half or.1-mile central segment by 2030. Wow, while completion of the full project has been pushed to 2045. Wow, so Wall Street Journal said that the first phase will only be now a mile and a half.
Speaker 2:So there's going back in there, because, obviously, this is just when you, when you think of, like, what's possible or what's what you can possibly pull off, and you look at what they're, what they're, they're, they're trying to do here. You can only imagine it's going to change. You always say, but it, but wow, and then you start, then you dig into the design, so so then there's the, just the massiveness of it, and then you look at the how it's going to be designed, and you start looking at, you know, the conception and it is truly, I mean, for me, I it's mind-blowing. Yeah, it's, it's looking at a science fiction. You know rendering it's and it's stunning.
Speaker 2:I mean it's stunning, and I know it's all conception, but it's stunning. It's stunning what they're doing and in stunning and I know it's all conception, but it's stunning. It's stunning what they're doing. And in order to do that, obviously you have to solve engineering, sustainability. All kinds of things have to come into play here and so, as the, as Gensler, as the, you know, as who they are, they're going to not only probably be pushing the envelope and creating brand new kinds of solutions, the envelope and creating brand new kinds of solutions. They're going to take that knowledge and then distribute it across the globe into other projects that they've learned.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, we, we understood how you know we, we solve this over here. It's going to go, we're going to go apply it over here into this project or what have you. And that's that's who Gensler is. I mean, that's that's why they're just they're such an impressive organization. So I know you can keep talking about them, keep talking about it. You should, when you get a second, go and just go Google it, go to Wikipedia page, go, follow the links, follow wherever, and start reading about this thing, because it is just staggering. Yeah, you know, obviously costs have has come up. We're talking a trillion dollar project. Yeah, you know, they've said less than that, uh, but I, you know there are estimations that it's going to go over a trillion dollars. Um, oh, excuse me, the first phase of the project was a million dollars, a trillion dollars, 1.2 trillion, oh, excuse me, 312.
Speaker 1:The estimate is 320 billion us for just the first phase, just the first mile and a half or two, so you can do the math well, one of the interesting things, guys, is that the wall street journal has reported that authorities on the spokespeople for the project have have stated that that this futuristic city is intended to be a zero carbon city. Okay, zero cars, zero pollution, zero carbon emissions. So again, you have to have the global authority to pull this off right. I mean, it's not just the biggest, most innovative thing, but to have it completely net zero all at the same time. This is all of the most incredible design minds in the world. So I think this really is on par with the pyramids, with the Great Wall, and it's really the modern-day version of the pyramids of giza. That this is so far advanced, that that's the way I'm viewing it as a new wonder of the world.
Speaker 2:I I can't imagine how it wouldn't be right. Uh, it, it's just it, it is just a stunning. So you should go when you get a chance. Uh, bring it up, go look about it, go read about it. But anyway, that I mean that and that just gives you an idea. Plus, it's just, it's just fun to watch. I mean it's just fun to learn about, at least for me, and I know it is for you, wayne um just to read what's going on and you know what is, or experience and see what's going on in other parts of this world. If you've traveled abroad and you've traveled to some of them and stood in some of these, you know, in the middle of some of these projects, it's absolutely astounding what is happening and what they're building and what they're able to build and what they're investing in.
Speaker 1:Well, what's really interesting is, when we consider any incredible landmark city that you visited in the world be it New York City, be it Sydney, australia, be it Shanghai, china you name all of these, these marquee cities of the world weather's a factor. Weather has so much to do with the um, the identity of a city Chicago, the windy city, right, vegas is hot. Um, weather plays into all of that. So what's really great about, about the line here is that, despite climate change talks, the city is also being built with perfect temperature regulation. Yeah, according to the professionals here, ideal weather 24-7, 365 days a year. Okay, so that's appealing, you know, in attracting people to actually go live in this city. This is an actual city contained within. So we look at cities on land, that just kind of sprawl with the growth Right, this is measured, master-planned growth and design within the construct of the city. That that is.
Speaker 2:That's something that's never been done it's been contemplated, like some of the great architects, they, they, they all seem to have, you know, early, you know the frankfurt riots and the, they had these conceptions of getting away from sprawl and getting, you know, going vertical. And so you, you start to see some of these. You know ideas, ideas that have been around for, you know, probably it'd be almost a hundred years finally coming into the realm of possibility of like, okay, well, we get that. So, instead of again, so sprawl, let's go up, let's centralize, let's bring everybody together. And it's not without controversy. Everything's going to have controversy, you know, are you, are you, you know, but it's not without controversy. Everything's going to have controversy, but nonetheless it's still being contemplated and it appears to be going forward and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:Well, hats off to Gensler for being awarded the lead on the line. We're so excited to follow it. I'm going to try and figure out how to get myself on the waiting list to have a penthouse in a line someday. I hope I live long enough to realize that 2045?
Speaker 2:Yeah we'll be here for 2045. Certainly hope so.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, in part of the intent with our micro series of company spotlights, we're going to bring an interview together for you so we can introduce you to one of our reps at Gensler, yes, and we're going to pick his brain and let you experience how he thinks about this whole energy infrastructure, data center environment that we find ourselves in. So stay tuned for that upcoming interview That'll that'll be coming in the coming weeks. Is there any final thought? We want to talk about Gensler.
Speaker 2:You know I use not really only to say that. You know, I think when we get back to this conversation around sustainability, green development, energy, everything we talk about on this podcast, um, it all comes back to you. You have to have super smart people like a gensler, and people and a company in a group that can see into the future or push you into the future, and ultimately have to solve today's problems and tackling those things and understanding how to take every, all the current challenges we have and then, uh, imagine an ideate into the future about what could be possible. And so it just, and knowing that you have to get back to yeah, you can do all these things you can imagine, but you still have to solve some of these basic problems. Yeah, you still have to solve power. You still have to if you, if you want, imagine, but you still have to solve some of these basic problems. Yeah, you still have to solve power. Absolutely, you still have to if you want to compete and you want to be something of a future where I think most people agree on.
Speaker 2:We were going to go towards a greener, more sustainable planet. We're going to get into that either the upcycle or the cradle to cradle approach about products, so that don't have. We get away from single-use products and more in like how can we use these products over and over and over and over again? Because it's just smarter. Historically it might not be the cheapest way to do things, but it's getting there to where, for all kinds of reasons, most people are starting to come around like, yeah, and how do we do that? How do we solve these things? How do we push our goals of creating, um, more energy building, more energy infrastructure building, obviously more data centers to support what we know with ai and everything else is going to happen on the technical side, everything else we know is going to be needed Ultimately, that again Gensler encapsulates that idea and understanding of where, where we've been, where we are and where we're going.
Speaker 1:There are so many implications behind it, dave. I mean power production and transmission is a huge one. Water desalinization and infrastructure. I mean next level, something we've never seen before Steward treatment, waste treatment. I mean you're not talking about a landfill, but you have a population of 9 million people. I am so excited to see the solutions that they develop within the line to address all of these things that we've traditionally done. When we have land, we can just spread out on, that's right, and bury stuff, you know, in a landfill or something. Very excited, let's wrap it up. Let's do it. Can't wait to get our rep in from Gensler for an interview here, guys, so we hope you'll stay tuned and join us on the next episode.
Speaker 2:Thanks, everyone, until next time on the Frontier Line.
