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THE FRONTIER LINE
Hosts Wayne Aston and David Murray explore the critical global pillars of infrastructure development and energy production, from traditional methods to future-forward advancements. The Frontier Line covers the latest industry news, energy innovations, and sustainability trends that are shaping the future. Through expert interviews with industry leaders in renewable energy, utility-scale battery storage, and waste-to-energy technologies, the podcast provides insights into the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and sustainable infrastructure. By focusing on the intersection of innovation and the politics of energy, The Frontier Line highlights transformative ideas and technologies poised to deliver cost-efficient, resilient, and sustainable solutions for global industries.
THE FRONTIER LINE
Invictus Sovereign- Chief Investment Officer, Ryan Miller - Making Billions Podcast
Step into the fascinating world of technology and energy as we journey with Ryan Miller, the innovative co-founder of Invictus Sovereign. Hailing from Alberta, Canada, Ryan's track record in financial consulting and venture capital is nothing short of extraordinary. With achievements like a staggering 5,000% ROI and leadership in an award-winning insure tech company, Ryan is a force to reckon with. Listen as he shares his insights on infrastructure investing, leadership, and the pivotal role of personal responsibility in global competitiveness, offering a unique perspective on clean energy and his promising partnership with Wayne in Invictus Sovereign.
The episode unravels the explosive growth in the data center industry, driven by the insatiable demand from tech giants. The surge has propelled rents up by 30% and signals a golden era of investment opportunities where technology and energy overlap. We explore how the rapid ascent of AI technology is reshaping the landscape, surpassing even the adoption speed of personal computers. These shifts represent a major transformation, echoing historical economic patterns and setting the stage for future developments. Through engaging discussions, we highlight the convergence of energy and data as a compelling investment thesis.
In a world where timing is everything, we navigate the challenges of investing in renewable energy infrastructure. Ryan offers his expertise on overcoming hurdles such as supply chain headaches, regulatory bottlenecks, and the critical need for streamlined processes. His journey from humble beginnings to becoming a beacon of change underscores the power of vision and determination. Ryan's mission to combat pollution and wealth disparity through the "rise of the rest" movement is inspiring, leaving us with profound insights into redefining human potential and championing prosperity for all. Join us for a transformational conversation that promises to enlighten and motivate.
Good morning Ryan. Welcome to the show. Are we recording already we're recording.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh here we are Good morning, Good morning guys, Morning Ryan.
Speaker 1:Ryan's joining us. Guys, ryan Miller is joining us from Alberta Canada this morning, so we're super excited to have him connected through this amazing technology. Ryan, if you'll let me, I'm going to just give a quick introduction, because the listeners need to know what a killer you are. Is that fair?
Speaker 3:That's fair enough, brother.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Ryan Miller is actually the co-founder of Invictus Sovereign. He and I started this starship a little over three years ago now, but he's also the chief investment officer of the company, so we're excited to have him in that position. Before that, ryan founded Pentium Capital Partners. He's specialized in financial consulting and venture capital investments, and he's actively raised and deployed capital, both as an angel investor and a venture capitalist, both in tech and energy sectors. How cool is that? I mean very good, everyone who's been listening. Those are the hot buttons for the show tech and energy. Those are the hot buttons for the show tech and energy.
Speaker 1:One of your most successful deployments resulted in placement growth of over 5,000% ROI in the first five years in the industry. That's a shocking benchmark to hit. Maybe we can dive into that as we get into the show here. Ryan served as a chief financial officer for a nationally acclaimed, award-winning insure tech company, and he also managed and mentored over 200 professionals while in the office of CFO. He earned his bachelor in finance and a master of financial management, and he's dedicated his life to mentoring hundreds of emerging fund managers, assisting them in establishing and scaling private investment funds of all types. You've raised a lot of money and you've helped a lot of people raise their funds.
Speaker 2:And he's also a hell of a guy. He is a hell of a guy and might have a little podcast of his own, perhaps.
Speaker 1:I didn't even mention, let's just talk about that.
Speaker 2:How did I?
Speaker 1:skip that. Ryan is also, yes, the internationally acclaimed host of the show Making Billions, which was recently ranked internationally in the top one and a half percent globally, and we've been watching and cheering and just like, holy shit, what an accomplishment that is. That's five years of dedicated, day in, day out, refining the craft, mastering the craft. So well done, thank you Thanks.
Speaker 3:It's great to be here, and I don't know if it's weird to say, and I don't know if it's weird to say, but huge fan of your show, so I listen to it literally every morning to get excited.
Speaker 3:So it's exciting, but I think what you guys are touching on and I'm so happy to be part of that is really the importance of infrastructure investing, leadership, tax regimes, risk management. I've heard it all. I've literally listened to every episode that you have and I'm going to continue to do that Because I think what all of us at the funds and the businesses that we're doing is really important work. But the show is showcasing something a little bit broader, which is saying if we want to be competitive around the world, we have to start getting into a little bit better leadership.
Speaker 3:Now, often people look to governments for that, but that's also individuals like ourselves and I know unfortunately sometimes that's called old school. So you can call me, because I know you guys agree I'm definitely I'm turning into that guy right? Something magical happens you pass 40 and all of a sudden you're talking about back in your day and all these things. So I wear it with a badge of honor. But in all seriousness, one of the things is we often look to governments, but very, very often we look to individuals to lead.
Speaker 1:And, Wayne, I know your vision is really starting to unfold and I couldn't be more happier, thank you. Thank you, that's kind. We appreciate your support and you listening into the show. It's always awesome to have a veteran in the podcast space. There's a lot of behind the scenes tips you've contributed. You know how to, how to clean this up and how to make that sound better and how to, you know, do this and that, and we're still we're still babies because it's a brand new show, but we're trying to like take in the fire hose of of how this all works and so we're happy to have you on the show.
Speaker 1:Ryan um dave and I typically as we've interviewed. Now, these interviews that we've done so far have only been focused on the core team of Invictus Sovereign and you know our C-suite guys and actually members of the company, so we've kind of prepared some guideline questions. We don't always stick to that. We have a general sense of what we'd like to cover with you and we'd really like to drill into some of your background successes, because you've mentored so many people in this energy and the fun space. Before we dive into data centers and energy, could we maybe?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll ask a question right off the sure how did the two I don't know the story, so how the two of you get together, how did, how did this all come about?
Speaker 3:this is a great, great story and uh it it's like, uh, almost like kids, like hey, how did you?
Speaker 2:and mom meet.
Speaker 1:So how did you fall in love?
Speaker 3:no, it all seriously, so, um, so I was really attracted to um, the things that Wayne was doing, um, both not only is he, as you would say, a heck of a guy, but, um, a lot of his successes in development and infrastructure was really important to me. And when we met, I was also doing clean energy. I've been doing it for a long time and huge advocate of energy. In fact, in my bio I worked in oil and gas for a very long time as well, and I think, with my interest in clean energy and Wayne's interest in development, just like merger of the minds, and we just had this mind meld and we came together and we said, hey, I think we can really produce something impressive.
Speaker 3:Not, and it wasn't a lot of times, as you guys would know, when men, we get together and we talk about our business and all the wins that we have and all these things, um, this was a different conversation, and so when we got together, we would illustrate the importance of, we'll say, upgrading humanity, to say, you know what, there's maybe some missteps in our opinion and we think we can help fix them.
Speaker 3:And one of those things were you know, we've been living in the world for a while, and it's the one that we inherited, and every generation goes through this. Now I can't speak for every generation, but it feels like it's a pretty significant problem of cleaning things up, doing things more responsibly, adding to energy, and so there are great opportunities right now to do the right thing, and that's where Invictus was born. And so when Wayne and I got together three years ago and we started penciling this out and I think we hung out at UFC fights and we had a good time and we really just penciled out to be like what does that look like? What is doing the right thing on a global scale look like? And that's where Invictus was born, and I'm excited to talk about a lot of the details here.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. That brings back good days. I mean, in that first year, as we'd met, I was going through some very interesting transitions personally, and in the following months, as I've kind of had the event I'll just refer to an event, right, ryan, I mean I'm talking to this guy almost once, twice a week now for this whole time, and half of the time we weren't talking about business. You know Ryan would call me up and he'd be like brother, how are you feeling, how's your heart today, man? I mean, what can I do for you? If you want to yell, call, yell, scream, swear at me, like whatever you need, I'm here for you. And he really showed up for me in the ways of a true friend and someone that I would consider a brother.
Speaker 1:And you know we've talked about this common thread of Invictus. Like this core team of guys is like this is a club of guys that's really committed to one another. And, ryan, you you exuded that and you've consistently exuded and showed me that over a long time over. You know, several years now, through some, very, some of the most challenging times of my life. You know, when I've really depended on who's in my close circle and my, my circle has gotten very small, uh, in the past four or five years, by the way, just just because of the things that have been, you know, gone on in business and me kind of recognizing who's who belongs in my inner circle and who who belongs out here somewhere else, and and so it's been awesome to cultivate that with you so I can I can authentically tell the listeners that you've been more of a, a support animal to me that I can hug. You know a guy that I can hug.
Speaker 3:Get a few pats on the head. Oh, that's coming back.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm totally joking, but just an amazing, amazing friend who's, you know, willing to, you know, set business on the shelf for a second and, you know, talk about what's important when it's necessary. So thank you for that. You're welcome, man.
Speaker 3:It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 2:Well, we've talked a lot about those things. Those are core to who we are. We think, I believe, probably with our values and our hearts first and thinking then, is that good? And then looking at all the other stuff we're trying to tackle. It's been one of the, I think, hallmarks of our experience. Last for me, the not not the three years, but last couple of years. Yeah, it's been.
Speaker 2:It's been amazing, absolutely, um, to take it away and ask you you mentioned something about, you know, ryan, looking at the big picture and governments and governments trying to solve problems, and what's your take right now? I mean, there's a lot of different. You know there's a lot of different approaches going on right now. I just saw yesterday there, you know, here in the US, there there's a group that's trying to basically put a stop to utility expansion and study it. And you know what. You know, if I, I read that and go, it's going to, you know it's going to, it's going to impact our competitiveness. What are you seeing? I mean you, you know Canada what are you seeing on a national, international scale? Um, in this space right now, broadly, what are your, some of your opinions on how these things are being tackled? Maybe best ways, worst ways to do things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question, dave. So you know, I would say there's a couple of things. So there's no silver bullet answer. So, if you'll permit, maybe I'll give you the long form answer Once you get me going.
Speaker 3:it's like a locomotive once you get me going, it's it's like a locomotive, but uh, all right, so so, yeah, so I think, like many sectors, there's going to be a lot of issues, and that's one of the things, and I'm a canadian, but I lived in america for I don't know around maybe 10 years, something like that. I absolutely loved it. Now, one of the things that I really love about um, I'm going to go broad and then we'll narrow that down to some specifics. But one of the great things that I love about I'm going to go broad and then we'll narrow that down to some specifics. But one of the great things that I love about disagreement is that when two sides so advocacy group A opposes advocacy group B, somewhere in the middle, there's something better and a lot of innovation comes out of that. So I absolutely welcome criticism.
Speaker 3:I'm not worried about it. However, there's a line where you have to draw which simply just says well, at the end of the day, if both sides are committed to following trend lines over headlines, we might be able to produce something pretty cool, and either we know what that is or we're about to know what that is. But from my perspective, the data suggests that this is a positive movement, but it's not without its problems. So, for example, if we want to follow the data, the trend lines over the headlines, what we're seeing is between 2017 and 2023, there's been about 100 million square feet of data centers built 100 million.
Speaker 2:That's incredible, so much.
Speaker 3:That's a lot of investment. In fact, over about the same period, that was about $35 billion, which I think is not enough, but the data is what it is. There's been about $35 billion raised to start investing into that. That's up to last year, so odds are that these capital commitments are not even deployed yet, and we'll get into some of the reasons why it might not be. So now we're in this industry or we're in this environment globally.
Speaker 3:Now, these are just American statistics, but this is an issue for humanity, and, being in the investment game, I always say that bigger planes need longer runways, and so this is one of those big plane, long runway type of things that we're doing and many other people are doing, which is we're going to solve a lot of problems that exist on a global scale. So you go from this is a side rant of perhaps an emerging fund manager is how do I grow AUM and all that stuff, and that's good, but really, as you graduate and Wayne and I this was the early days when we were talking is to say, sure, plenty of that, that's fine. That's the world that we operate in. However, the main thing that we want to do is upgrade humanity. The main thing that we want to do is really add to the leadership of people that have come before us. And so all of this money and permits, and data centers and energy development they're all starting to converge, and often you can create a pretty cool investment thesis by combining two converging industries.
Speaker 3:And so what we are doing this sounds like a promotion. It's not. I'm just proud. But what we're doing and what we've created is the convergence of energy and data, and there's a problem right now, big problem, but solving problems can be not only ethically the right thing to do, but even financially. That's just good business. And so the big driver of that that we're seeing I don't think they use this acronym anymore, but FANG FANG stocks they're a big driver of data demand, data demand, and so what we're seeing now is, with all of this capital coming in, with all of these data centers that are being built or trying to be built, is that there's a 30% increase in the rents of current data centers right now. Now that could be a constrained supply as well as a high demand. I don't know about you guys, but that is definitely an industry worth investing in.
Speaker 1:I don't know about you guys, but that is definitely an industry worth investing in. I appreciate that because we have focused. I've spent a lot of years trying to find what I call the anomalies in the market, and the two anomalies that really complement each other is extreme demand for something and extreme scarcity of the same thing, and that's what you're talking about, isn't it, ryan?
Speaker 3:That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Scarcity of available white space for these operators, scarcity of power to even power these data centers and exploding demand. It's an interesting statistic that you shared there. I think that data set was from 2017 to just this last year and and it'd be interesting to overlay the advent or the timing of AI hitting that, because 2017, we weren't talking about AI, not like this and in data, no, it was.
Speaker 2:AIML. It was more of a theory on how it might be deployed, but not like we're seeing it, not in the least, I mean.
Speaker 3:I think it's you know it was interesting in 2015,. Just to complement that point In 2015, so just a couple years before this snapshot, 2015, not a single investment opportunity raised according to the data, not a single investment opportunity was raised for data centers. Nobody was doing this. Wow, that was not that long ago. 2015, not a single person wanted to throw money at them.
Speaker 2:Nine years is all Really.
Speaker 2:It was just the hyperscalers at the time the Amazons, the Metas, who were trying to service their own, the Apples service their own demand really, and now so many others. But I think there were pioneers probably going, okay, this is going to change, and they were looking at that. I don't think. I'm sure there are people out there that saw the AI, the explosion, but I don't know that you could have predicted the impact, the broadness of the impact. I was telling you something, I think, a couple of podcasts ago, that the adoption rate of AI is eclipsing the adoption rate significantly of personal computers and home computers. The speed at which we are using these tools as a society is really fast and in such a way that if we look at the computer going oh no, it was over a period of time we're doubled in personal use I think it's at 2x right now from where personal computers were. So that should tell you about how quickly people are embracing this, trying it, using it, utilizing it, and it's not something that's going any other direction besides growing demand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well said and often what you see. If you want to geek out on economic history, I know it's a good time, let's geek. I'm a blasted cocktail party.
Speaker 2:That's why the rest of everyone's drinking cocktails.
Speaker 3:Now I know why they find me interesting but, um, you know, often what you'll see and this is a very generalization, but not overly generalized is often you'll see these key milestones where you'll see things, um, bankruptcy, divorce, technical revolutions, a lot of those things happen a little bit at a time and then all at once. And so this is an interesting phenomenon, and if you can get good I'm putting on my investment officer hat if you can get good at identifying trends, what are those ones that are happening a little bit at a time, mm-hmm, and then what is about to happen all at once? Well, let me tell you what I think. I mean there's many, but we'll stick to the scope of energy and data. And to complement your point, dave, um, the things that are were happening a little bit out of time were these data centers and some investment, but not a lot.
Speaker 3:There's years where there was zero investment and I could say you know what? Everything is data, right. Right, I believe I could be wrong, but one famous VC said that software is eating the world, or something like that. And so where does that software sit, where does all that information sit? And the answer is typically data centers. And so doing that allows us to move forward. And then you will see this issue. When you zoom out and go more macro, globally, one of the issues that you're going to find is that you see this economists know this when you find a country that needs to emerge or wants to emerge or, better yet, hasn't emerged with everyone else, often what you'll see is there's some constraints to access to energy. Either they're not producing it or they're not distributing it, and so one of the critical components of prosperity around the world, especially in the age of AI, is access to clean, ethically produced energy, and with that energy, we convert it into industry.
Speaker 1:That's an awesome insight. I mean, we have focused so much energy, time and energy on talking about energy and the constraints and the impediments, and they're far-reaching. There's just a whole list of these constraints. I mean, if you think about Africa, for example, as a continent, we've had these conversations with some really high-level folks on that continent and it's been made clear to us that only 30% of that entire continent is electrified at this point in 2024. That was a shocker to me when I learned that, but it also opened my eyes to what you're talking about, ryan opportunity. I mean to expand that power production, that infrastructure, grid, transmission, switchgear, all the components that's going to take to power a country right effectively over the next 100 years plus. It's going to be in the trillions of dollars just on that continent.
Speaker 1:We're seeing wide, wide, sweeping power grid upgrade initiatives, power grid expansion initiatives in multiple countries. This is in the headlines every day right now. It's fun to watch because these are not the same conversations that we were having even three years ago and we have all become accustomed to the brownouts. You know. We hear about a brownout in Texas, another rolling brownout in California. Whatever we're predicting that for this to reach that fever pitch. It's going to bleed into, you know, these longer-lasting blackouts in every state of the country because population keeps growing AI is moving faster than all of it growing power production and power grid expansion and all of that is not meeting the pace, it's not pacing with all of that expansion.
Speaker 1:So, before we can bring on all of the renewables, the new nuclear, the old nuclear, all of these power production modalities, I believe, we believe that we're going to start seeing crisis level needs translate through the general population. People are going to actually start recognizing my God, we are actually in a power crisis because there's really not enough. We are actually in a power crisis because there's really not enough. It's going to become a household conversation where that hasn't been up until maybe 2024. It's starting to hit the headlines, but I think 2025, 2026 are going to be really really interesting headlines.
Speaker 2:I agree, we've talked about that a lot People. Generally speaking, they go about their days as long as I can charge my phone, as long as long as I can charge my computer, plug it in. I don't think most people don't think about it until it's an issue and and that's when the broader population will start paying attention, going, oh this is really, why don't we have this solved. And there'll be people like us and all everybody else saying, well, it's, it's a hard thing and that's why it needs to be solved. But also you have to bring a lot of parties to the table to get this solved. It's not just one group. One group can't solve this. It's a lot of different organizations, a lot of different in many cases, governmental organizations that have to come in.
Speaker 2:It's a challenge. It's a challenge to tackle. Ryan, you raised something when you were talking. I'll ask you to put your investment hat. Well, Ryan, you raised something when you were talking. I'll ask you to put your investment hat. Well, just don't take it off. So I saw this morning, yesterday, that BlackRock I think they're going to dump another $8 billion into data centers in Spain. What do you think is going through the minds right now, like kind of the bigger investment groups. Are they kind of following the trends going? Oh, my gosh, I see this being talked about everywhere. We've got to jump into this. Or is this the end of just a lot of deliberative decision-making for them over the course of the last couple, three years of like okay, now's the time. We've been looking at this for a while, We've been studying it. Now's the time to deploy. What do you think is going on right now in some of these larger, larger capital groups?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's a great question, I think. So there's a couple things. One of them is to touch on, uh, something you said, wayne, uh, about you know there's there's some issues here, but there's a saying that I like to say often, especially in my different companies, is constraints create creativity. Triple C, and so often when we have constraints, you kind of get squeezed and then something's going to pop. And so there's a couple areas that I think to answer your question, dave, is what are those areas? What are they seeing? And there's only so much they can do as a private business, no matter how much money they have BlackRock, blackstone or whoever it is these big asset allocators still with all their size. So, from Invictus to everyone else in this industry, who's looking to solve these constraints with creativity? And there's really three areas that I believe are going to derail this. So what are they seeing? Well, number one, dave, to answer your question they're seeing that this, they're seeing what we're seeing that this is a, this is an issue on data centers. There's infrastructure issues that can be solved with investing, but it can also be thrown off because there's a few things that still need to catch up in order for this constraint and creativity to come together.
Speaker 3:And I would say number one and I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's energy production. We tackled that a little bit earlier in this discussion, but energy production is one of those huge constraints. So no amount of capital and investment in data centers is going to fix that in isolation, and so we almost have to swim a little bit further upstream to really identify these constraints. And, wayne, you and I have done that. We would say great, data centers, great idea. Upgrade humanity, wonderful idea. What are we dealing with? And the answer always comes back to energy. And so that's why, obviously, producing energy. And so what you're going to see is this adaptation or constraints, create creativity. These creative approaches that are going to need to be in place are onsitesite energy production with data centers. That solves problem number one.
Speaker 3:Now, inside of that, there is a growing demand, and I, like this demand is saying well, it's not just energy, but we want clean, abundant and ethically produced energy. That's what people want. Yeah, who knew people could have an appetite for a flavor of energy? I had no idea they want it. Well, they're saying I don't like the traditional stuff, I want this new flavor. Great, let's serve it up. I love it.
Speaker 3:That's humanity asking for the right thing. You're saying we don't want to pollute the earth, it it helped, but what got us here won't get us there, and so now what we're seeing is people not only want data centers, not only want energy, but they want it to come together in the right way that there's not all these externalities that exist that harm humanity. And so clean, abundant, ethically produced energy is a big one, and I think clients so I mentioned FANG stocks before but a lot of these large data consumers they're looking for that. Not only do they want data centers, but they want clean energy Absolutely, and so producing that is one of those creative approaches that you're starting to see emerge, and I think we're one of the very few that are tip of the spear on this one. So that's number one.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Is there a number two? I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 3:I have plenty I'm going to dive in. Yeah, I don't want him to go to number two yet because he's probably telepathically channeling what I'm about to ask here.
Speaker 1:But it's along the lines of what you're asking and alluding to, Dave, and it has to do with. This is something common in real estate development. In real estate development, a good developer is going to look in somewhat of a crystal ball and they're going to analyze the future and they're going to gamble on the future a little bit and they're going to say I think the path of growth is there, so I'm going to go start building infrastructure and homes and all the things in that path you follow. And so there's also somewhat of a predictive skill set in a good manager and this is where you see some emerging managers really coming into the forefront quickly because they've got good skill sets in predictability of where this path of growth is going, this invisible path of growth. Right, and we're talking about energy that leads to infrastructure, that leads to data centers. So that's kind of the path of growth here.
Speaker 1:But I think it's probably fair to assume that when you have the Black Rocks of the world, the KKRs, Carl Elsie's, big funds, they've got hundreds of analysts, thousands of people, and they're able to really triangulate trending before it becomes mainstream information. That's a critical piece in my mind and so with that in mind, Ryan, would you care to indulge us on your experience on that skill set, Because I think a lot of that had to do with that big ROI we talked about in your bio. Feel free to share whatever detail you're comfortable with, but could you give us an example or two, or just your two cents on that ability to kind of predict the future in a way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so great question, wayne. So I would say, predicting the future, obviously in the literal sense we don't do that, but we, we really try to make sure that we say, okay, based on trajectories it's just statistical models based on trajectories, what do we believe is going to happen and how do you get in front of that? And the more people that disagree or don't know, as you said, the armies of analysts that are trying to figure stuff out before it's mainstream. You can't make a significant return. So let's, so let's shift to the actual. Does this make business sense? You can't make a significant return doing what everyone does.
Speaker 3:Now, that's obviously a very broad stroke. So, if you can't tell, I'm a bit of a contrarian, not wild, but I say well, people are all focused on the left, maybe we go right, and so I think what this happens is investors, like us, have people who want to build capital assets, support the infrastructure, do the right thing. We're quick to adapt because, to your point, we follow a lot of the data. That's our job. That's what investors are requiring from fund managers, emerging or well-established, and everyone in between. Our job is to look around corners so investors don't have to, and so, seeing a lot of the trends and I know in a previous episode you talked about PEST or PEST-OL analysis, swot analysis, and we have all these frameworks to kind of say, especially in PESTL, you want to really analyze a lot of these things, and so what are some of the political risks and benefits economic, social, technological, environmental and legal technological, environmental and legal and so when you explore those dimensions, you start to see patterns emerge and one of those things that, when we overlay a lot of the patterns and trends, on top of morality, of wanting to do the right thing now, you start to predict the future, not the one and only, but you start to predict a really cool future, one that you want to create.
Speaker 3:And I'm talking about the early days, wayne, when we were talking about it. But who's slow to adapt that we need to speed up a little bit. So, while we can see the trends, that only goes so far. Is this is not some fun cutting big checks and it gets done? We know that internally. Yeah, you have government regulators across the board who are still trying to figure this out, and that's not a knock on them. It's really hard to be a regulator, being a regulator, as I jokingly say on my show it's regulators tap the brakes until something flies through the windshield.
Speaker 3:So not an easy job, but regulators regulation is another potential stumbling block because often regulation is based especially in energy and investments. So we've got the sec and we've got a lot of energy regulators in america and around the world, absolutely who are still running regulations based on an energy abundant country, and that's no longer the case. So I think, in order for us to really stall this problem and I don't mean us as Invictus, I mean us as humanity we really need to work hand in hand with regulators, both energy securities, both like SEC securities, but as well as actual security, securing the data of that country. In working with regulators, I think we need to update a lot of the regulation that exists so that investment will flow, security of our grid and be actually secured and I think that's a big one as well as SEC regulation Not easy to do, but it needs to adopt to different fund structure models that will facilitate, in these long runway lead times for these large planes to take off, because if you keep saying or if you keep offering fund managers, we'll use the airplane analogy a runway long enough for a cessna and these guys are trying to launch a jumbo jet.
Speaker 3:It's like I can't do this, like I can raise the money, I can deploy it, I can hire engineers, we can really get this done, but I need your help. You need to build me like three times the runway Now. That's not asking for special permission, but we really need a meeting of the minds to start to come together and start solving this problem. Like I said, things happen a little bit at a time and then all at once. So the sooner a lot of people can start coming together regulators, investors, fund managers the sooner we can come and start building a consensus. I think we can get in front of that all at once moment where the whole thing runs into serious issues's. Great. That's awesome input.
Speaker 1:that is I'm going to give you a chance to respond to that, because I've got a couple I I do and we might burn thoughts we might be of one brain perhaps, or different, completely different direction.
Speaker 2:You and I talked wayne. You and I talked about something a while ago. One of our first episodes and that was we were both kind of shocked that we have two petawatts of he was channeling me.
Speaker 3:There's a triangulation of minds right now. You can't see it, it's invisible, but it's happening.
Speaker 2:And we're speaking telepathically, go ahead. You know we're talking about two petawatts. That's not connected, yeah, and we both wondered like why you know what was going on as far as the investment is to your point and you bring this up. Maybe it was a runway issue, maybe they're. You know they're putting it out there. They know it's not connected, so it's not making any money right now, but they're saying, yeah, but this is a 10-year gamble or this is a 10-year kind of a deployment, and wondering how they are dealing with their investors and that sort of thing, just understanding the mechanics of it. Or this comes back to a question, ryan, I have for you is. I mean, we know this, in business there's also a too soon into a business or into a sector. Is that some of that? What are your thoughts on? You know? So I don't know if you caught this part of it, but there's two petawatts give or take sitting out there that's unconnected.
Speaker 2:In the US grid we use about four and a half a year. 90% of that to petawatts is renewables. That's not connected because the infrastructure doesn't exist to connect it in any meaningful way to the larger grid, which that's what got us going like what that's. You know, we're glad that the, the, you know the power has been created. But then how do you solve that connection part? And then, and then this was what I was thinking this comes back to your runway, is that? Is that any any thoughts on that? Or yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's a great question. So, yeah, you're right, too soon is an issue. It's one thing to be right, but it's entirely another to be right at the right time. So being right at the wrong time is the same as being wrong Now. I'm fully confident Now is not only are we right, but I believe we're at the right time, so it's not too soon for investment. In fact, I have a little bit of information that we're following and for our listeners around the world, they might benefit from this.
Speaker 3:But let me illustrate this with data. And so what we're seeing right now from an energy production and capital deployed and this will fuel into changes and necessary changes in regulations and fund structures and all that which is essentially extending the runway so these large infrastructures can take off. But what we're seeing is, right now, land acquisitions. When it first started so the people who were right, and maybe a little early, but not too early you could get land acquisitions on average in about 10 weeks. Wayne, you're a developer, you know that. Not bad. Not bad Now it's 15 months, 15 months, from 10 weeks to 15 months, just to get the land. That's number one. And so are we too soon? This data for me, my interpretation is we're almost a little late, not late like party's over, but it's like okay, like music's been bumping for a while and we show up fashionably late. We'll say we're fashionably and that's not a bad thing. But what we're saying is, depending on when you enter the market, there's different issues and if you can solve and deal with those issues, you can come out on top, and that's what our investors are trusting us to do and that's what we do. So going from 10 weeks to 15 months just to acquire land, just to be like great, we got the land, that's number one. The other one this is shocking the average.
Speaker 3:So there's critical components. So securing the supply chain is another issue, because there's a lot of demand. And so the supply chain of critical components, for example, transformers 30 months to get a transformer Houston, we have a problem, oh yeah. And so capital, right, we're seeing all these people and there's rise of capital and everybody wants to deploy. But what we're seeing is downstream, there's a little bit of some issues, and so I believe and I could be wrong the internet will be internet and it'll keep me honest, and I certainly encourage that.
Speaker 3:But what I believe, my theory right now, is the reason why it's taking too long is regulators, and again, that's not a knock on them. They're there to make sure we don't overbuild and crash our grid, and so not only is supply chain a bit of an issue right now so securing critical components and oil and gas we'd call that feedstock, but it's a bit of a stretch but securing a lot of the inputs that need to go into this project is a problem, including land, and so that's one of those things that we have to see is to say, if anything, we're a little bit right on time, if not fashionably late. Little bit right on time, if not fashionably late, because now the early ones got their stuff, they got their components, and now money's starting to move in, competition's starting to increase, and we're still seeing some other issues that need to catch up, and so that's a big one is a lot of those considerations need to be put in place. That's number one. So permitting we really need to get our permitting figured out, streamlined, in order to do that, and the second one and this is again back into that regulators.
Speaker 3:Number two some of those constraints that we might be facing it being on time, I would say is tax. Are we properly and competitively, providing different tax and government incentives for people who want to deploy, and when we do that, are we making it easier for that capital, once it comes into our country, can it be deployed in a timely fashion? So those are two areas that we need to look at and I know, again, structuring your offer and making sure that we're not just buying expensive land because we have huge egos and we're going for it. It's actually structuring the offer in a competitive way, and the US has made some very good strides to bring industrial manufacturing back. No-transcript and we're going to see a lot of investors sleeping well at night.
Speaker 2:Great answer, thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, ryan, you remind me of something I may have mentioned a few weeks back, which was talking about political risks, talking about municipal risks, the educational process of bringing a small town, municipality, municipal governments, up to speed with all this regulation, with energy, with demand, with all the variables. And so there's a notion that I embrace, that I think we share here, that even if you've got all the money in the world BlackRock and you've got thousands of people to spread out and find land and do things, that's powerful, but it's not the trump all card, because I think where there's flexibility with boots on the ground, guys who know what's going on within a jurisdiction can be a game changer. It can affect buying land at a much better price. It could affect having annexation, zoning permitting fast tracked. It can speed this entire situation up. So, while the big hyperscalers are spending millions of dollars per acre in some major metropolitan jurisdictions, we're focused on much different land acquisition strategies, where we're able to acquire land at a fraction of that price, with municipalities who value this new opportunity coming into their community.
Speaker 1:Whereas you know West Virginia, phoenix, you know saturated with data centers, saturated with power production they don't want anymore. They're trying now to put moratoriums on it, to stop all of it, because now you're seeing headlines in West Virginia, for example, of the emissions coming from all these data centers. Because of all this, power production is unmanageable. So you know this is underscoring so many points you've made. Ryan, we're pushing on time and so I want to shift gears on you just for, kind of, some final thoughts. I want to get a little personal with you, if we can. Ryan's a family man. I've had the distinct opportunity to spend time with his beautiful wife. He's a father. Ryan, if we could share with the listeners some tidbits about you personally, and we'll let you expand on it, but do you care to share with us your why?
Speaker 3:What gets you out of bed every day to come and conquer the world and do this? That's a great question. Thank you for surprising me with it. So I feel like I am standing on stage in my underwear, but in all think, I think back to where it all began. So I I I grew up in, we'll say, humble beginnings and I'm seriously this 12 year old kid staring at the stars and I know this sounds so dramatic, but this is true and I remember it vividly. And about 12 years old I was like what am I going to be when I grow up? Like many, many people have. And how do I not grow up in this certain kind of neighborhood? And I'm old enough to remember these old Wall Street movies? And all I knew was by watching these movies at 12 years old, that there was this magical fairyland called Wall Street that makes you drive a porsche and have a pretty wife.
Speaker 3:So don't judge I was 12, so I thought hey, if that, if that's how I land and I haven't bought the porsche yet, so, um, but there was. It really opened my eyes to investing. And when you grow up in a certain environment, in any environment, there's certain messages and conditioning and for some reasons, just how I'm wired, I just saw people who would suffer and think this is so unnecessary. And so I start out first. My family go to college and from that conditioning I thought they made a mistake when they let me in and so because of that kids these days called imposter syndrome. So we all get it, it's okay, I see you out there, we all get it.
Speaker 3:And you know, in the early days I was just, I gave up dating girls and football games, all the fun stuff you're supposed to do as a young man in college. But I was good. I was a good boy Cause I knew in my mind, I believed, that someone was gonna be like oh sorry, we made a mistake, you got to leave and my only defense was but I got good grades, I can hang, but I think it's so important. So during that time I remember I went out and visited someone. He lived around there and we were friends. He's now a spinal surgeon, I don't know about you, but I would consider him wildly successful. And he recounted I was at a business meeting and I invited him along and where I was Phoenix, and he recounted how people would stop inviting me to parties because they would go into my college dorm room and I'd have pictures of successful things that I wanted.
Speaker 3:And I think what happens is the power of a vision is important, but the power of the why is critical. Power of a vision is important, but the power of the why is critical. And so going back to the moment when I was young is saying I'm going to be the one that makes it and I'm going to bring as many people with me as possible. And the older I get, the more I realize that people who genuinely seek progression over perfection are the ones that get the gold medal, people who are focused on progress, but not just themselves but progressing humanity. And so, really being that catalyst, it became my mission in all of my companies to do two things.
Speaker 3:Coming from where I came from, seeing what those environments of poverty would do, I think what it does is it clouds your idea of the value of the human soul and it makes you start to think that maybe it's okay Doesn't mean you like it, but maybe that's just how it is that some people get left behind, and I was never okay with that, and so it's been my mission, which is my why, I guess, is commonly what people say is number one is to redefine the value of the human spirit, of what people believe that they're worth. There's too many people that can't see it and I don't think that that's okay. And, more importantly, or just as important, is be a catalyst to ignite the rise of the rest is what I call. It is saying you know what? There are things in place right now that I don't agree with Pollution, for example, wealth disparity. There's a lot of issues. That's okay, but when you have people that stand on their feet, raise their hand, like we are, and saying I can fix it If I get the right people, the right investors, the right vision, the right leadership, the right transformers that hopefully show up in less than 30 months, maybe we're onto something here and maybe, just maybe, if I can produce something that I know helps people to achieve prosperity which we discussed earlier was access to energy and I can do it without polluting and ruining communities that I operate in, maybe I'm onto something.
Speaker 3:Maybe if I do that, I can be a catalyst to help in facilitating the rise of the rest. And so that's what gets me out of bed every morning is to say you know what? I'm following my calling and not everyone's going to agree, that's okay. That is okay. It's not your calling.
Speaker 1:It's mine, I love that Bravo. I appreciate that and I.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that that was fantastic.
Speaker 1:And I want the listeners to understand that's a very authentic response and I've had the opportunity to watch you on stage many times and I've had the opportunity to interact with dozens of fund managers who you've mentored through the years, raising hundreds of millions of dollars, and the things that they share about you personally underscores what you just shared. I know you're committed to that because I've been able to see the fruit of that. So thank you for sharing, ryan. That's powerful. Very With that, dave, if we don't have a final thought.
Speaker 2:You get the final thought. That was fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for joining us today. Ryan, all the listeners out there, thank you for joining us on the show. We hope you enjoyed this. This is one of those episodes full of actionable golden nugget advice and perspective. We hope you enjoyed it and we hope you join us on the next episode. Until next time on the Frontier Line.
